[Acceleration] EA Atmospheric Shuttle

[[BL]Phalanx]

This is for the minimum height of a low-orbit around Mars:

The Mars Odyssey's initial, elliptical orbit around the Red Planet will last 19 hours before it is adjusted by a series of delicate breaking maneuvers, called aerobreaking, until it skims over the planet's thin atmosphere.

In the end, the space probe will settle into a circular, two-hour orbit at an altitude of some 400 kilometers (250
miles) above the Martian surface.

In the episode "End Game", we see an EA atmospheric shuttle take off from the surface of Mars and go into orbit to dock with one of the Omega-class destroyers to offload its supplies. It is a single continuous shot with no cuts.

The shuttle reached the Omega from the surface in 25 seconds. Assuming a distance travelled of 400 kilometers to get into orbit, we're looking at an acceleration of 1280 meters/sec^2. This is 130 g's.

IMO, this number is stupid, but there you go.

[Master of Ossus]

Hmmm... That's pretty damn quick, for the B5 universe. It might be correct. I'll have to look at the tapes.

[[BL]Phalanx]

Hmmm... That's pretty damn quick, for the B5 universe. It might be correct. I'll have to look at the tapes.

Even if it is correct, it makes very little sense. EA has no inertial-dampening technology. Maybe it was unmanned?

[pecker]

Hmmm... That's pretty damn quick, for the B5 universe. It might be correct. I'll have to look at the tapes.

Even if it is correct, it makes very little sense. EA has no inertial-dampening technology. Maybe it was unmanned?

Are you sure they have none at all? They do have EM shielding that can weaken energy weapons. They may have something that can weaken acceleration inside the ship to tolerable levels.

[Master of Ossus]

Hmmm... That's pretty damn quick, for the B5 universe. It might be correct. I'll have to look at the tapes.

Even if it is correct, it makes very little sense. EA has no inertial-dampening technology. Maybe it was unmanned?

Are you sure they have none at all? They do have EM shielding that can weaken energy weapons. They may have something that can weaken acceleration inside the ship to tolerable levels.

Starfuries seem to be able to pull an inordinate number of lateral G's, from time to time. Maybe the space suits are really that good at helping pilots stay alive? I'm really just guessing. This doesn't seem to fit very well with the rest of the universe.

[[BL]Phalanx]

Are you sure they have none at all? They do have EM shielding that can weaken energy weapons. They may have something that can weaken acceleration inside the ship to tolerable levels.

Some races have energy-based defenses, but the EA isn't one of them.

I'm pretty sure EA has no inertial dampening tech. At least, none is ever mentioned, and we know they don't have artificial gravity, so it would seem that they don't have inertial dampening tech.

This *might* be a case for them having it in some form, but like I said, the shuttle could've been unmanned.

[[BL]Phalanx]

Starfuries seem to be able to pull an inordinate number of lateral G's, from time to time. Maybe the space suits are really that good at helping pilots stay alive? I'm really just guessing. This doesn't seem to fit very well with the rest of the universe.

There's a g-force tolerance study somewhere, but I dont' have a link. I wish I remembered where I saw it. Anyways, the limits in that one were roughly 30 g's *forward* (as in "eyeballs in") for 30 seconds. Then it also had something like 9 g's up, and 5 g's side to side and downward. I didn't see anything about going backward.

That was with completely water-submerged subjects, too.

I don't think any suit would be able to keep a guy alive through 130 g's for 25 seconds.

As for how it fits with the rest of the series... well, there's indication of similar acceleration from ships in "A Call to Arms" as they fled from the self-destructing Shadow Planet Killer. Of course, by that time, EA had artificial gravity already, so they'd be able to implement inertial dampening.

[Connor MacLeod]

I thought one of the JMS comics indicated EA ships did have inertial damping? (And these comics were supposed to be canon, right?)

[Connor MacLeod]

For that matter, do we need to assume its manned?

[paladin]

This is for the minimum height of a low-orbit around Mars:

The Mars Odyssey's initial, elliptical orbit around the Red Planet will last 19 hours before it is adjusted by a series of delicate breaking maneuvers, called aerobreaking, until it skims over the planet's thin atmosphere.

In the end, the space probe will settle into a circular, two-hour orbit at an altitude of some 400 kilometers (250
miles) above the Martian surface.

In the episode "End Game", we see an EA atmospheric shuttle take off from the surface of Mars and go into orbit to dock with one of the Omega-class destroyers to offload its supplies. It is a single continuous shot with no cuts.

The shuttle reached the Omega from the surface in 25 seconds. Assuming a distance travelled of 400 kilometers to get into orbit, we're looking at an acceleration of 1280 meters/sec^2. This is 130 g's.

IMO, this number is stupid, but there you go.

Maybe the shot was suppose to be time lapsed?

[[BL]Phalanx]

Maybe the shot was suppose to be time lapsed?

I doubt it. IIRC, just prior to the shuttle lifting off, *in the same shot* we see Garibaldi's team walking across the surface at normal speeds. Unless you can show why the shot was suddenly sped up in mid-shot...?

[[BL]Phalanx]

I thought one of the JMS comics indicated EA ships did have inertial damping? (And these comics were supposed to be canon, right?)

I am not sure.

For that matter, do we need to assume its manned?

I already suggested that as a possibility. It would still indicate that their engines have that kind of power.

[paladin]

Maybe the shot was suppose to be time lapsed?

I doubt it. IIRC, just prior to the shuttle lifting off, *in the same shot* we see Garibaldi's team walking across the surface at normal speeds. Unless you can show why the shot was suddenly sped up in mid-shot...?

So, they did have to follow the shuttle's flight for several minutes and waste time.

[pecker]

Are you sure they have none at all? They do have EM shielding that can weaken energy weapons. They may have something that can weaken acceleration inside the ship to tolerable levels.

Some races have energy-based defenses, but the EA isn't one of them.

I'm pretty sure EA has no inertial dampening tech. At least, none is ever mentioned, and we know they don't have artificial gravity, so it would seem that they don't have inertial dampening tech.

This *might* be a case for them having it in some form, but like I said, the shuttle could've been unmanned.

I'm pretty sure it says somewhere Omegas have Energy Webs or something like that.

[[BL]Phalanx]

So, they did have to follow the shuttle's flight for several minutes and waste time.

What are you trying to say here?

I said that in that same shot we saw people walking at a normal pace. Unless you think Garibaldi and his team were walking *really* slowly and the whole shot was sped up?

I mean come on! If you're gonna be like this, I guess there ain't *any* evidence I could bring to the discussion to satisfy you...

[[BL]Phalanx]

I'm pretty sure it says somewhere Omegas have Energy Webs or something like that.

Well, yeah, but that's not really a "shield" the way most people think of it in sci-fi. The energy webs are more like the interceptors (which could also be classified as "energy defense" but it's more like point-defense). IIRC, energy webs work against beam weapons, but even they still have to activate and "fire" against it to deflect the beam.

[[BL]Phalanx]

So, they did have to follow the shuttle's flight for several minutes and waste time.

What are you trying to say here?

I said that in that same shot we saw people walking at a normal pace. Unless you think Garibaldi and his team were walking *really* slowly and the whole shot was sped up?

I mean come on! If you're gonna be like this, I guess there ain't *any* evidence I could bring to the discussion to satisfy you...

[paladin]

So, they did have to follow the shuttle's flight for several minutes and waste time.

What are you trying to say here?

I said that in that same shot we saw people walking at a normal pace. Unless you think Garibaldi and his team were walking *really* slowly and the whole shot was sped up?

I mean come on! If you're gonna be like this, I guess there ain't *any* evidence I could bring to the discussion to satisfy you...

Phalanx, you thought 130 Gs for an EA shuttle seemed unreasonable. Since you thought that, I suggested that shuttle's flight time was shorten to explain why it reach orbit so quickly. Using the Space Shuttle has a starting point, it reachs orbit in about 5 minutes subjecting the crew to 3 to 4 Gs. I would think an EA shuttle unmanned could do 13 Gs and manned could do 3 to 4 Gs.

If the visual evidence doesn't make sense, then try to come out with a more reasonable answer.

[[BL]Phalanx]

Phalanx, you thought 130 Gs for an EA shuttle seemed unreasonable. Since you thought that, I suggested that shuttle's flight time was shorten to explain why it reach orbit so quickly. Using the Space Shuttle has a starting point, it reachs orbit in about 5 minutes subjecting the crew to 3 to 4 Gs. I would think an EA shuttle unmanned could do 13 Gs and manned could do 3 to 4 Gs.

If the visual evidence doesn't make sense, then try to come out with a more reasonable answer.

Uh, if it was unmanned, it could easily do several hundred g's. The Galileo probe we sent into Jupiter endured an acceleration of 228 g's:

http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/young.html

And IIRC, human g-force tolerance is *roughly* 30 g's for 30 seconds. I don't have a source for this handy at the moment.

[paladin]

Phalanx, you thought 130 Gs for an EA shuttle seemed unreasonable. Since you thought that, I suggested that shuttle's flight time was shorten to explain why it reach orbit so quickly. Using the Space Shuttle has a starting point, it reachs orbit in about 5 minutes subjecting the crew to 3 to 4 Gs. I would think an EA shuttle unmanned could do 13 Gs and manned could do 3 to 4 Gs.

If the visual evidence doesn't make sense, then try to come out with a more reasonable answer.

Uh, if it was unmanned, it could easily do several hundred g's. The Galileo probe we sent into Jupiter endured an acceleration of 228 g's:

http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/young.html

And IIRC, human g-force tolerance is *roughly* 30 g's for 30 seconds. I don't have a source for this handy at the moment.

The probe endured 228 Gs when it was slowing down to achieve Jovian orbit not when it was launched!

http://hypertextbook.com/physics/mechan ... ndex.shtml

30 Gs for 30 seconds would probably kill a human. Nasa sees 8 Gs as tops for humans when launching into space but 3 Gs is normal.

[[BL]Phalanx]

The probe endured 228 Gs when it was slowing down to achieve Jovian orbit not when it was launched!

http://hypertextbook.com/physics/mechan ... ndex.shtml

30 Gs for 30 seconds would probably kill a human. Nasa sees 8 Gs as tops for humans when launching into space but 3 Gs is normal.

It still *endured* that acceleration. There's no reason why an EA shuttle could not *also* endure such an acceleration if it was unmanned. You said that, unmanned. the EA shuttle could do 13 g's, while modern technology can build something to withstand a couple hundred g's.

30 g's for 30 seconds is "eyeballs-in", not "pulling".

[paladin]

The probe endured 228 Gs when it was slowing down to achieve Jovian orbit not when it was launched!

http://hypertextbook.com/physics/mechan ... ndex.shtml

30 Gs for 30 seconds would probably kill a human. Nasa sees 8 Gs as tops for humans when launching into space but 3 Gs is normal.

It still *endured* that acceleration. There's no reason why an EA shuttle could not *also* endure such an acceleration if it was unmanned. You said that, unmanned. the EA shuttle could do 13 g's, while modern technology can build something to withstand a couple hundred g's.

30 g's for 30 seconds is "eyeballs-in", not "pulling".

The question isn't whether an EA shuttle could endure hundreds of Gs, the question is whether the EA has engines that could accelerate a shuttle like that. And I don't think the EA has the engines to do it.

30 Gs for 30 seconds is all well and good but manned spacecraft aren't subjected to that level of G-force.

[[BL]Phalanx]

The question isn't whether an EA shuttle could endure hundreds of Gs, the question is whether the EA has engines that could accelerate a shuttle like that. And I don't think the EA has the engines to do it.

But there's evidence that they do.

30 Gs for 30 seconds is all well and good but manned spacecraft aren't subjected to that level of G-force.

No *modern* manned spacecraft are subjected to that many g's. You don't know that the same holds true for manned spacecraft in B5.

[paladin]

The question isn't whether an EA shuttle could endure hundreds of Gs, the question is whether the EA has engines that could accelerate a shuttle like that. And I don't think the EA has the engines to do it.

But there's evidence that they do.

Not including gravimetric engines, what is the evidence?

30 Gs for 30 seconds is all well and good but manned spacecraft aren't subjected to that level of G-force.

No *modern* manned spacecraft are subjected to that many g's. You don't know that the same holds true for manned spacecraft in B5.

EA without gravimetric engines don't have anyway to protect the against high Gs. Only Starfuries were designed to help the pilot handle high Gs.

[[BL]Phalanx]

EA without gravimetric engines don't have anyway to protect the against high Gs. Only Starfuries were designed to help the pilot handle high Gs.

.........?

Um, when you have something new and *relevant* to say, I'll get back to you...