Darth Vader at the end of ROTS vs Full health Grievous

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-07-03 04:59pm

Could Vader right after donning the suit, after having his connection to the force weakened and his reflexes shot defeat General Grievous in his prime (5 saber version

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Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2005-07-03 05:18pm

Uh...five saber? Is he hopping around on one foot?

When has he been seen to do this? Was it LoE?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-07-03 05:21pm

Manus Celer Dei wrote:Uh...five saber? Is he hopping around on one foot?
When has he been seen to do this? Was it LoE?

the Clone war's micro-series, he had four independent hand's and could use one of his leg's to crush an opponent's head or wield another saber with it.

Kane Starkiller · Post by **Kane Starkiller** » 2005-07-03 05:23pm

Just after he woke up Vader crushed the metal (durasteel?) construction in the room so I think that it's a safe bet that he would defeat Grievous.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-07-03 05:27pm

But he is slow, and is weaker in the force, remmember at this point he hasnt supplemented himself with the dark side.
Also Grievous is very fast, If Vader cant get a choke on him in time then he will need a dozen new limb's (Again)

Also Grievous is layered with Phrik alloy which can resist lightsaber's (The stuff on the magnadroid's staff's) so he would be stronger and tougher than vader.

Kane Starkiller · Post by **Kane Starkiller** » 2005-07-03 05:35pm

Well if it comes to lightsaber combat Vader is in trouble. He likely isn't used to his new artificial limbs and hence wouldn't be much of a swordsman at that point.
Nevertheless he would likely be able to crush Grievous with the force.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-03 05:36pm

Except he destroyed every single piece of equipment in the room just because he got pissed. Grievous is crushed like a soda can.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-07-03 05:40pm

Pcm979 wrote:Except he destroyed every single piece of equipment in the room just because he got pissed. Grievous is crushed like a soda can.

He was in a murderous rage at finding out that he had killed his wife, even 20 years later he doesnt demonstrate that type of raw power.
Would vader's choking work against GG? after all his vulnerable organ's are his heart and head, I didnt think that he even used a throat so that unless Vader used a windu style crush (possibly beyond his new power or unknown to him yet) then gripping a metal tube might be slightly ...dissapointing

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-07-03 05:50pm

the .303 bookworm wrote:
Pcm979 wrote:Except he destroyed every single piece of equipment in the room just because he got pissed. Grievous is crushed like a soda can.
He was in a murderous rage at finding out that he had killed his wife, even 20 years later he doesnt demonstrate that type of raw power.

You're full of shit. Ripping bolted-on equipment out of the walls is harder than deforming hollow vessels.

Would vader's choking work against GG? after all his vulnerable organ's are his heart and head, I didnt think that he even used a throat so that unless Vader used a windu style crush (possibly beyond his new power or unknown to him yet) then gripping a metal tube might be slightly ...dissapointing

Are you honestly this stupid? Vader killed Admiral Ozzel from several kilometres away, through metal bulkheads. He could crush Grievous' withered heart like a grape.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-07-03 09:29pm

the .303 bookworm wrote:Would vader's choking work against GG? after all his vulnerable organ's are his heart and head, I didnt think that he even used a throat so that unless Vader used a windu style crush (possibly beyond his new power or unknown to him yet) then gripping a metal tube might be slightly ...dissapointing

What was all that gasping and coughing GG did in the film?

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-07-03 10:43pm

*ahem*

This "full health" Grievous nonsense is bunk. See that droid general in RotS? That's full health Grievous. That "he's coughing because Mace Windu crushed his chest" is bunk. It didn't happen in LoE, and LoE is more reliable than CW.

Kenoshi · Post by **Kenoshi** » 2005-07-04 12:15am

Vympel wrote:*ahem*

This "full health" Grievous nonsense is bunk. See that droid general in RotS? That's full health Grievous. That "he's coughing because Mace Windu crushed his chest" is bunk. It didn't happen in LoE, and LoE is more reliable than CW.

I don't recall Grevous having the heavy duty cough in LoE either. Must have taken up smoking late in the war.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-07-04 12:57am

Vader crushes Grievous like a metallic bug (which Grievous looks an awful lot like).

Grievous: *draws lightsabers* Prepare to die, Jedi scum! *coughcoughhack*
Vader: *wheezes, then gestures at Grievous*
Grievous: *heart goes pop*

The Grievous/Obi-Wan fight likely would have gone off similarly if Kenobi was a Sith. Basically the reason that fight went on for so long is because Jedi have a thing against using the Force to crush internal organs.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-07-04 01:39am

I don't think they have a problem with using the Force to kill. Kenobi would've killed an ordinary human with that force push he slammed Grievous with. It was awesome. And Grievous is no droid.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-07-04 01:46am

Vympel wrote:I don't think they have a problem with using the Force to kill. Kenobi would've killed an ordinary human with that force push he slammed Grievous with. It was awesome. And Grievous is no droid.

The method has a bit to do with it. Using the Force to push Grievous the way he did (even if it would have killed a less resilient opponent) is a lot less dark than using the Force to, say, liquify Grievous's brain.

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » 2005-07-04 02:11am

the .303 bookworm wrote:Also Grievous is layered with Phrik alloy which can resist lightsaber's (The stuff on the magnadroid's staff's) so he would be stronger and tougher than vader.

Do you have a source for this or are you just bullshitting? Obi-Wan's saber seemed to slice Grievous pretty easily. Even if it was just through his wrists, it's not like the magnaguard's staffs are that much thicker.

Speaking of Jedi being reluctant to use certain force powers though, I find it interesting that Mace Windu was the only Jedi to try and crush Greivous' ribcage (chapter 25 of the CW series) since it's stated several times that Windu's style border's on the darkside. This would seem to coincide with the idea that the Jedi feel that using certain powers in certain ways borders on falling to the darkside, especially when you consider how easy it would be to simply use the force to pop Greivous' little heart.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-07-04 02:18am

I wonder if there's a Galactic support group for murderous, hate-filled cyborgs with respiratory issues.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-07-04 02:23am

the .303 bookworm wrote:
Also Grievous is layered with Phrik alloy which can resist lightsaber's (The stuff on the magnadroid's staff's) so he would be stronger and tougher than vader.

The resistance comes from the staff's shielding. the novel is very clear in that regard. The harmful energy that does the shocking and electrocuting is only at the tips, but the shield covers the entire thing.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-07-04 07:02am

Wouldn't a full-health Grievous be totally organic? In that case Vader wins this way or the other.

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2005-07-04 07:37am

the .303 bookworm wrote: Also Grievous is layered with Phrik alloy which can resist lightsaber's (The stuff on the magnadroid's staff's) so he would be stronger and tougher than vader.

I don't know where you got that from, according to the Ep.III Visual Dictionary Grievous' armor is made from Duranium.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-07-04 07:44am

KhyronTheBackstabber wrote:
the .303 bookworm wrote: Also Grievous is layered with Phrik alloy which can resist lightsaber's (The stuff on the magnadroid's staff's) so he would be stronger and tougher than vader.
I don't know where you got that from, according to the Ep.III Visual Dictionary Grievous' armor is made from Duranium.

Did'nt know that

.

Also does Anakin know how to perform a force-crush? Not mass tk.

He can perform a force grip but can't do it on the same level he can after 20 years of learning the sith art's (20 year's of specializing with with one particular dark side technique with Sith refinement's can give you a high level of expertise).
Still if Anakin can crush duranium piping easily before rots then after he becomes "a painter who has gone blind" and has his connection to the force weakened then it doesnt matter how fast Grievous is, if Vader can still crush super-dense material's even in his weakened state.

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2005-07-04 07:55am

the .303 bookworm wrote: Did'nt know that .

Also does Anakin know how to perform a force-crush? Not mass tk.

He can perform a force grip but can't do it on the same level he can after 20 years of learning the sith art's (20 year's of specializing with with one particular dark side technique with Sith refinement's can give you a high level of expertise).
Still if Anakin can crush duranium piping easily before rots then after he becomes "a painter who has gone blind" and has his connection to the force weakened then it doesnt matter how fast Grievous is, if Vader can still crush super-dense material's even in his weakened state.

I have know idea how dense Duranium is, but it doesn't really matter seeing how Vader can just skip past the armor and crush Grievous' organs.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-07-04 08:03am

Just remmembered: After the battle of Jabim Anakin used a throat crushing technique to attempt to jump-start a heart so he does know it.
Sadly enough this mean's that unless grievous starts within near striking distance Vader will give him a heart attack.

Victory for the machine man over the Kalee machine.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-07-04 01:54pm

the .303 bookworm wrote:Also Grievous is layered with Phrik alloy which can resist lightsaber's (The stuff on the magnadroid's staff's) so he would be stronger and tougher than vader.

Added note: In ESB, Vader's armor blocks a lightsaber strike from Luke. He was hit in the bicep area (which is not bionic, judging from the ROTS reconstruction scene), and the result was a nick, some smoke, and a growl from Vader that seemed to be a mix of pain and anger.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-07-04 06:43pm

Civil War Man wrote:
the .303 bookworm wrote:Also Grievous is layered with Phrik alloy which can resist lightsaber's (The stuff on the magnadroid's staff's) so he would be stronger and tougher than vader.
Added note: In ESB, Vader's armor blocks a lightsaber strike from Luke. He was hit in the bicep area (which is not bionic, judging from the ROTS reconstruction scene), and the result was a nick, some smoke, and a growl from Vader that seemed to be a mix of pain and anger.

Keep in mind that Vader might have also used the Force to slow and blunt Luke's swing. It doesn't necessarily mean that Luke would get the same results if he just swung at a piece of metal lying on the floor.

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Darth Vader at the end of ROTS vs Full health Grievous

Cyborg-hybrid vs machine composite

Darth Vader at the end of ROTS vs Full health Grievous