The Cardassians

Shocker · Post by **Shocker** » 2002-11-21 10:51am

Since it seems vaguely clear on whom would win in a straight up confrontation between the Empire and Federation, I was wondering what everyones thoughts on what sides the various alien factions within the Alpha Quadrant would do?

Although I'm sure topics like these have been brought up before, I was wondering if anyone had made any serious thought as to a possible Cardassian role in the hypothetical war would be if inexplicably, the Federation/ Empire war became more of a protracted conflict.

The Cardassian Empire, throughly weakened by the Dominion War and no doubt having been weakened even further if Klingon and Romulan forces annexed many of the worlds they seized during the conflict, would no doubt be in a relatively interesting situation. If for some reason the Empire wanted to invade the Federation or Alpha Quadrant and inexplicably wished for aid, I would think the Cardassian Empire would be one of the first people they contact.

The Cardassians, while not militarily powerful, seemed to have a strong martial or family honor system ingrained within them although I could be mistaken. And the dishonor of being crippled ala Nazi Germany would be overwhelming for any species. Plus the fact that the military actually allied with the Fed/Klingon/Romulan Alliance in the end and yet were still probably oppressed and had territories annexed by members of the Alliance would most likely add to this anxiety their entire people felt.

If the Empire had some reason to, they could conceivably aid the Cardassians surreptiously and while the Cardassians naval might isn't anything special, their knowledge of the other major powers in the Alpha Quadrant is. From the Cardassians they could learn everything from fleet strengths, to attitudes, dispositions, tactics, strategies and everything that any foreign power would know about their foes and allies. And probably get those starcharts that Pro-ST people always seem to be whining about the Empire have none of.

This is just a collection of a few thoughts I had on my mind and was wondering if anyone had any ideas to expand on it or bring up topics related to it.[/i]

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-11-21 11:17am

The Cardasians are still part of the Dominion so the question is really moot. Unless the Dominion wishes to join with the Empire and I have a feeling that the founders would never allow themselves to be the junior partners of a solid led alliance, then the Cardasians really have no say.

The amount of aid the Cardasians could lend to the Imperial cause would be negligible. Their homeworld was occuppied and millions killed in bombings. Their fleet in tatters, their empire scattered and hungry. They would be more of a hindrance than an asset. If I were an Imperial Commander I would look to the Romulans as an ally that would most likely fit hand in glove with Imperial methods and philosophy.

Shocker · Post by **Shocker** » 2002-11-21 11:34am

The Cardassians aren't part of the Dominion though. Remember that staged a massive uprising against the Dominion oppressors which culminated with the cardassian fleet joining the Alliance.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-11-21 07:59pm

The Cardies were unable to cope with a full-scale Klingon blitzkrieg which, without Federation interference, would probably have overwhelmed their homeworld within three days of the start of hostilities ("Way Of The Warrior"). Before the alliance with the Dominion, they weren't powerful enough to challenge the Alpha Quadrant powers on their own, and even with the alliance they never got anywhere near achieving the conquest of the Federation.

The Cardassians rely on sheer weight of numbers to compensate for a distinctive lack of quality in both technology and strategy. The DS9 episode "Defiant" revealed the extent to which Cardassian command and control is overcentralised and politicised to a degree beyond even that of the Federation Starfleet.

Quite simply, the Cardassian Union would be totally unable to cope with the sort of monstrous blitzkrieg which the Empire would launch against them. They do not have the firepower to seriously challenge Imperial stardestroyers, and the speed disparity alone makes the task of securing Cardassian territory an impossible one. They would certainly be unable to protect any of their planets from either a BDZ or Death Star attack, and no Imperial fleet is going to be slowed down by a Cardassian battle line.

But I expect that the Cardassians might seek an alliance instead of attempting to fight a futile war which would likely result in the destruction of one or more of their worlds and civilian casualties in the billions.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-11-21 08:26pm

Shocker wrote:Since it seems vaguely clear on whom would win in a straight up confrontation between the Empire and Federation, I was wondering what everyones thoughts on what sides the various alien factions within the Alpha Quadrant would do?

Vaguely clear? Have you actually ever seen how one sided the ST vs SW debates are?

As for other alien races in AQ or even in the whole of the ST galaxy if they were to all put aside their differences and fight together it would still be doubtful that they would win.

Shocker · Post by **Shocker** » 2002-11-21 11:51pm

weemadando wrote:
Shocker wrote:Since it seems vaguely clear on whom would win in a straight up confrontation between the Empire and Federation, I was wondering what everyones thoughts on what sides the various alien factions within the Alpha Quadrant would do?
Vaguely clear? Have you actually ever seen how one sided the ST vs SW debates are?

As for other alien races in AQ or even in the whole of the ST galaxy if they were to all put aside their differences and fight together it would still be doubtful that they would win.

I was being sarcastic. Sorry. :p Thought the italics emphasized that. And this thread was SUPPOSED to be about the possibility of the Cardassians siding with the Empire.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-11-23 04:01pm

I think the empire would be too snobbish to join the cardassians, even if they needed a base of operations, they seem too crude for the imperials.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-23 04:08pm

If the Empire needs a base it can just bring in some deepdocks and Trade Federation sized freighters and park them in deep space. Star Trek basing resources would be of little use to them both because of limited capacity and differing technology. The Cardassian's would likely fight; lose much of there fleet and then surrender, in the course of eight hours.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-23 04:43pm

I really don't see why the Empire would see Cardassia as being remotely significant. It seems fairly clear that they are the weakest of the main 4 powers in the AQ (with the others being the Federation, the Romulans, and the Klingons), and it also seems clear that they, like the Centauri of B5, are diminishing in power rather than gaining it.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-11-23 04:54pm

I wonder which power would the empire ally with, among the other three, The federation has the plus of being human themselves, Klingons feral warriors and Romulans being rather engimatic.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-23 04:55pm

starfury wrote:I wonder which power would the empire ally with, among the other three, The federation has the plus of being human themselves, Klingons feral warriors and Romulans being rather engimatic.

Probably smash and occupy them all. None of them have anything approaching decent firepower so it's not like the Empire couldn't take them.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-11-23 05:09pm

Probably smash and occupy them all. None of them have anything approaching decent firepower so it's not like the Empire couldn't take them.

waste of the precious ammuniton, let these primitives destory each other and pick out the pieces while the imps spend some time having "fun"

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2002-11-23 09:13pm

Master of Ossus wrote:I really don't see why the Empire would see Cardassia as being remotely significant. It seems fairly clear that they are the weakest of the main 4 powers in the AQ (with the others being the Federation, the Romulans, and the Klingons), and it also seems clear that they, like the Centauri of B5, are diminishing in power rather than gaining it.

They do, however, have a highly competent and well established intelligence agency in the Obsidian Order.

Which would save the Empire the time and energy required to plant their own operatives prior to an AQ engagement.

Militarily, the Cardies can only aid the Empire as cannon fodder, but strategically, they could be far more useful.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-23 09:17pm

Vendetta wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:I really don't see why the Empire would see Cardassia as being remotely significant. It seems fairly clear that they are the weakest of the main 4 powers in the AQ (with the others being the Federation, the Romulans, and the Klingons), and it also seems clear that they, like the Centauri of B5, are diminishing in power rather than gaining it.
They do, however, have a highly competent and well established intelligence agency in the Obsidian Order.

Which would save the Empire the time and energy required to plant their own operatives prior to an AQ engagement.

Militarily, the Cardies can only aid the Empire as cannon fodder, but strategically, they could be far more useful.

That's possible. The Empire would need lots of occupation troops for their military operations, but the Cardassian starfleet is more or less worthless. And the Obsidian Order may come in handy.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2002-11-23 09:45pm

starfury wrote:waste of the precious ammuniton, let these primitives destory each other and pick out the pieces while the imps spend some time having "fun"

That sounds like ISB's tactic. Plant a few surgically modified agents in each government and have them begin to stir up trouble until all three governments are at war with each other, then move in during the chaos.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2002-11-24 02:18am

I thought the Obsidian Order was pretty much wiped out along with the Tal Shiar during their failed attack on the Founders homeworld?

I would think that, despite the Federation having humans as a member species, the Emperor (or whomever is in charge) would equate it with the Old Republic. In turn not just the need, but the desire to crush the Federation would become a factor.

The Romulans remind me a lot of the Chiss, except sometimes their tactics leave much to be desired.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-24 02:19am

Frankly, I think the Federation would rather negotiate a peaceful solution with the Empire. The very thing that earns it scorn by many would probably be it's saving grace when faced with the GE.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-24 02:20am

Darth Fanboy wrote:I would think that, despite the Federation having humans as a member species, the Emperor (or whomever is in charge) would equate it with the Old Republic. In turn not just the need, but the desire to crush the Federation would become a factor.

So, what, Palpatine went around smashing OR worlds "because he could"?

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2002-11-24 02:49am

You don't use violence when you can use the threat of violence first. These AQ empires are puny. The Empire would not even consider them meaningful adversaries. They'd probably just show up with a few ships, tell them that they are now part of the Empire and that their bickering is over, and explain to them that resistance will be met with extreme violence. If they don't take the Empire's word for it, a demonstration or two would probably go a long way to changing their attitude.

I know a lot of idiots out there think that the people of the AQ would rather die than live under a dictatorship, but history has shown us that people tend to accept conquerors once they sweep military resistance aside, unless the conquerors are remarkably cruel or the people are deranged fanatics.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2002-11-24 08:08pm

Palpatine didn't crush OR worlds just because he could. He did it because he wanted to in order to shape his Empire.

Hell the Federation might even be reminiscent of a fledgling Old Republic. Palpatine would definitely consider it to be an affront to his New Order no matter how much overkill he decided to use at first.

I do concede the fact that the Federation would surrender completely before being wiped out, that would probably occur early in a theoretical Imperial campaign.

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