Delta Squad Vs Hazard Team

[Lord Revan]

And I hope this isn't "let's remove the Deltas armor and tie their hands behind their backs" vs.

No way, the only advantage that Hazard Team has really got is home turf and the number of weapons they've got. Course the Deltas would probably be able to kill a Hazard team member, in H2H, with a spoon.

Don't make stupid comments. Hazard Team members are all well trained as soldiers except for a few of their mission specialists. Even then those types have learned well. Chell is far less a coward in EF2 and even in EF he would and did fight.

it's still one guy against 4 (Hazard Team Member, not Members)

[Noble Ire]

And I hope this isn't "let's remove the Deltas armor and tie their hands behind their backs" vs.

No way, the only advantage that Hazard Team has really got is home turf and the number of weapons they've got. Course the Deltas would probably be able to kill a Hazard team member, in H2H, with a spoon.

Don't make stupid comments. Hazard Team members are all well trained as soldiers except for a few of their mission specialists. Even then those types have learned well. Chell is far less a coward in EF2 and even in EF he would and did fight.

As are the Deltas, and probably more so. At the very most, their tactical skills match up (although the HT has numbers advantage.)

[Darth Wong]

It should be noted phasers are equal to blasters on occasion a scene very similar happens in Nemesis that also happens in ANH. An armoured security door is breached easily with one phaser blast. From what I remeber it took several shots from regular carbines to do the same thing.(or atleast thats what it sounded like to me.)

Take it as you will.

Wrong. You are assuming that the two doors are of identical toughness; an utterly ludicrous assumption. Take note of the way the door splinters with so many fragments; this is not the behaviour of a tough, ductile material. It is the behaviour of a brittle, low-toughness material. So I don't see why you should surmise that it is "armoured".

[Darth Wong]

As for the Hazard Team's numerical advantage, that may be of limited use when fighting in corridors. There's a practical limit to the number of men who can concentrate fire in that situation, and the Delta Squad shields and armour (not to mention their grenades) could easily prove decisive in any given encounter.

[Lord Revan]

I have to Wonder what Starfleet HQ is gonna look after this, as both corridors of buildings qnd the Armor of RCs is light grey and if understood the OP correctly the Hazard team is gonna use the ST equilevant of a missile launcher as part of their weapons.

[Lord Revan]

OK Look from EF2 and Hazard Team has these weapons and Equipment (excluding alien designs)

Type-II hand Phaser (same as Nemesis)

Type-IIIa(?) Phaser Rifle (same as First Contact)

Sniper Rifle (the Nemesis rifle, locked to shoot full clip with one shot)

Enhanced Compression Rifle (a pulse phaser SMG)

Phaser Assault Rifle (a Phaser shotgun in fact)

Grenage Launcher (shoot grenages that explode on impact with the target or when triggred by the user)

Micro Quantumtorp launcher (basically a missile launcher with 3 shot clip)

Tricoder (same as Nemesis)

[Darth Wong]

It's been demonstrated many times that Federation hand phasers are poorly shielded, hence easily disabled by ambient radiation. So Delta Squad's EMP grenades are going to be a serious problem for these Hazard Team guys. And HT's big rocket-launchers aren't very good weapons to use indoors anyway.

[Lord Revan]

I gathred some info on clip sizes of HT weapons

Type-II Phaser: infinate(it has a self-rechargeble powercell)
Type-IIIb Phaser: 15 shots
Phaser Assault rifle:9/9 shots
Quantum torp launcher:3 shots
Grenade Launcher:5 shots
Enhanced Compression rifle:39 shots
infinity Modulator (AKA I-MOD):14 shots

[Phyre]

I'm gonna say that the numerical superiority isn't going to be immediately present. HT is not going to bunch all of it's troops together, because how many DS members is an unknown factor to them, so they'll attempt to spread their numbers through (the remaining parts of) the building. They also have a rather limited number of shots per weapon. DS is going to employ small unit tactics, which will be much more effective in that environment... So I see numerous small engagements, but DS winning them.

My Bet: DS has a good chance of succeeding in its mission

[Lord Revan]

OK some info Clone Commando weapons

DC-15s:Standard Blaster pistol or the GAR
DC-17m(blaster):An Ion-pulse blaster (what ever that means), ammo capacity(in game) 60(clip)/300(overall)
DC-17m(sniper):sniper rifle with good accuracity, ammo capacity(in game) 20(clip)/80 (overall)
DC-17m(anti-armor): an anti-armor grenade launcher, ammo capacity(in game) 4 (clip and overall)

grenades (trooper can 5 per type (20 overall))
Electrostatic Charge Detonator: an EMP grenade.
Diversionary flash Detonator:a flash bang grenade.
Thermal Detonator:If you want to renegotionate a deal with Hutt use this.
Sonic Detonator:an grenade version of a Geonosian sonic blaster.

clone commandos also breach charges, proximity fuses and explosive charges though none of these are weapons per say.

Also note this was using the game only, the book adds stuff to the non-weapon equipments (but these like the 5th weapon slot, are probaly not used).

[Sea Skimmer]

It's been demonstrated many times that Federation hand phasers are poorly shielded, hence easily disabled by ambient radiation. So Delta Squad's EMP grenades are going to be a serious problem for these Hazard Team guys. And HT's big rocket-launchers aren't very good weapons to use indoors anyway.

If there actual rocket launchers, then that means back blast. Typical infantry rocket launchers today need 50 meters or more of clear space behind them for safety. Even when the rocket has a 'soft launch' charge, a little blast which kicks the rocket clear of the launcher before the main motor ignites you still need to be in a large room to safely fire them. In narrow corridors, the effect of firing a rocket would probably be similar to setting off a flash bang grenade, at best, for the users.

[Lord Revan]

If there actual rocket launchers, then that means back blast. Typical infantry rocket launchers today need 50 meters or more of clear space behind them for safety. Even when the rocket has a 'soft launch' charge, a little blast which kicks the rocket clear of the launcher before the main motor ignites you still need to be in a large room to safely fire them. In narrow corridors, the effect of firing a rocket would probably be similar to setting off a flash bang grenade, at best, for the users.

those use mirco Quantum torps, so back blast ain't gonna be a problem (as there ain't any), but it's card deck size, AM-explosive with a treknobabble charge to enhance it.

[NecronLord]

In game, the quantum launcher is safe in the entrance foyer of Starfleet Academy, and along its corridors. Well. Safe for the user, not for the cadets who got in the way...

[Darth Wong]

If there actual rocket launchers, then that means back blast. Typical infantry rocket launchers today need 50 meters or more of clear space behind them for safety. Even when the rocket has a 'soft launch' charge, a little blast which kicks the rocket clear of the launcher before the main motor ignites you still need to be in a large room to safely fire them. In narrow corridors, the effect of firing a rocket would probably be similar to setting off a flash bang grenade, at best, for the users.

those use mirco Quantum torps, so back blast ain't gonna be a problem (as there ain't any), but it's card deck size, AM-explosive with a treknobabble charge to enhance it.

That is absofuckinglutely retarded. Why would you use a M/AM warhead for close-quarters infantry combat? What happens if the guy carrying the weapon and the reloads gets hit? The AM in the warheads goes off, wiping out anybody near him.

[The Grim Squeaker]

That is absofuckinglutely retarded. Why would you use a M/AM warhead for close-quarters infantry combat? What happens if the guy carrying the weapon and the reloads gets hit? The AM in the warheads goes off, wiping out anybody near him.

In game the blast radius is roughly 1-2 meters, and the ammunition is kept in a subspace pocket or some such treknobabble.
The gist of it is that all the weapons and their ammunition is not physically carried when not in use, and the ammunition for a currently used weapon is warped in in single clips.

[Darth Wong]

That is absofuckinglutely retarded. Why would you use a M/AM warhead for close-quarters infantry combat? What happens if the guy carrying the weapon and the reloads gets hit? The AM in the warheads goes off, wiping out anybody near him.

In game the blast radius is roughly 1-2 meters, and the ammunition is kept in a subspace pocket or some such treknobabble.
The gist of it is that all the weapons and their ammunition is not physically carried when not in use, and the ammunition for a currently used weapon is warped in in single clips.

If we're going to use those kinds of silly-assed game mechanics, then Republic Commandos win because they can't possibly be killed. They can only be knocked down, and can always be revived by a teammate. So if you can't get all 4 of them at once, you lose.

[Alyeska]

I absolutely loved that element in RC how a team mate can revive you. Brought a whole new element to the game.

[The Grim Squeaker]

While the game mechanics are silly, it doesnt change the wanky fact the the hazard team keep's ammunition in some king of warp/subspace buffer (It was stated in the manual but I cant find it).

How can we calculate the yield of a miniature quantum torpedo then? (I dont mean this sarcastically, I would just like to raise the question of how to calculate a weapon from a video game without being crippled by in game mechanics if the weapon itself doesnt appear outside of the game).

Also how effective is the Commandoes medical technology from the "Hard contact" novel? (For whoever has read it)

[Darth Wong]

I absolutely loved that element in RC how a team mate can revive you. Brought a whole new element to the game.

Oh, I agree. I think it's a great idea for squad-based gaming. But it is obviously a game mechanism, like the Hazard Team weapons that disappear when you're not using them. I don't consider it reasonable to include such mechanisms in a "vs" argument.

[Darth Wong]

While the game mechanics are silly, it doesnt change the wanky fact the the hazard team keep's ammunition in some king of warp/subspace buffer (It was stated in the manual but I cant find it).

If we're going to use every game mechanic, then the Republic Commandos win, because you can't kill them. They're indestructible, and the only way to defeat them is to make sure that none of them are able to revive the others.

How can we calculate the yield of a miniature quantum torpedo then? (I dont mean this sarcastically, I would just like to raise the question of how to calculate a weapon from a video game without being crippled by in game mechanics if the weapon itself doesnt appear outside of the game).

You don't. There is no information which allows us to calculate yield.

Also how effective is the Commandoes medical technology from the "Hard contact" novel? (For whoever has read it)

What, so game manuals are not valid now? Because the game manual for RC clearly states that you can always revive a teammate, no matter what's happened to him.

[Alyeska]

I absolutely loved that element in RC how a team mate can revive you. Brought a whole new element to the game.

Oh, I agree. I think it's a great idea for squad-based gaming. But it is obviously a game mechanism, like the Hazard Team weapons that disappear when you're not using them. I don't consider it reasonable to include such mechanisms in a "vs" argument.

Well the HT weapons issue actualy got explained via transporter buffer. Technobabble for sure, but its an interesting option to say the least. Though I have a fealing the EMP grenade would kinda erase whatever got stored in there.

[Nephtys]

I'd imagine it's pretty handy to have the buffer, since then you'd ICly actaully have that magic pocket where you can stuff 100 rocket launcher rounds. BUT, that's a valid problem. What happens if you format it? Given the exotic radiation all over the place in Trekland interfering with transporter related technology in particular, how embarrasing would it be to try and pull your compression rifle out, when it fails to materialize and the hard drive goes corrupt?

[Darth Wong]

I absolutely loved that element in RC how a team mate can revive you. Brought a whole new element to the game.

Oh, I agree. I think it's a great idea for squad-based gaming. But it is obviously a game mechanism, like the Hazard Team weapons that disappear when you're not using them. I don't consider it reasonable to include such mechanisms in a "vs" argument.

Well the HT weapons issue actualy got explained via transporter buffer. Technobabble for sure, but its an interesting option to say the least. Though I have a fealing the EMP grenade would kinda erase whatever got stored in there.

Makes you wonder why nobody in the shows and movies ever uses this to bring along a shitload of equipment when they go on missions, then. Sure, they can make up some technobabble explanation, but do you ever think we're going to see a Star Trek movie where Captain Picard pulls a rocket launcher out of a subspace pocket during a battle?

[The Grim Squeaker]

Also the quantum grande cannon and the Romulan rad-x weapons are hardly standard gear, Murphy is the only one to use them, the equipment they normally have is a phaser rifle or the shotgun or the federation assault rifle, It seems logical to give them that as their standard equipment only for logics sake, this would also be more realistic as well as getting rid of the buffer brain-bug.

[Alyeska]

Oh, I agree. I think it's a great idea for squad-based gaming. But it is obviously a game mechanism, like the Hazard Team weapons that disappear when you're not using them. I don't consider it reasonable to include such mechanisms in a "vs" argument.

Well the HT weapons issue actualy got explained via transporter buffer. Technobabble for sure, but its an interesting option to say the least. Though I have a fealing the EMP grenade would kinda erase whatever got stored in there.

Makes you wonder why nobody in the shows and movies ever uses this to bring along a shitload of equipment when they go on missions, then. Sure, they can make up some technobabble explanation, but do you ever think we're going to see a Star Trek movie where Captain Picard pulls a rocket launcher out of a subspace pocket during a battle?

The same base technology was shown in a Voyager episode in which Voyager was hiding Telepaths by hiding them inside a transporter buffer.