Sexual preference research quotes

[Setzer]

I am constatly plagued by idiots who think that a person's sexual preference is a conscious choice. Are there any prestigious research groups or universities that have done research on the topic that I can quote to refute these deluded fools?

[Zero]

If they want proof, just tell them to try and go gay for a year, and see how easy it is to change. If it's a conscious choice, then it should be easy to become a homosexual.

[Darth Wong]

Don't let them maneuver you into a situation where you have to prove to them that it's not a conscious choice. They're trying to justify mistreatment of gays, so the burden of proof falls on them to justify their supporting claims. People are innocent until proven guilty, so let them prove it.

[kheegster]

Don't let them maneuver you into a situation where you have to prove to them that it's not a conscious choice. They're trying to justify mistreatment of gays, so the burden of proof falls on them to justify their supporting claims. People are innocent until proven guilty, so let them prove it.

Wouldn't the use of the term 'innocent' and 'guilty' implicitly imply that homosexuality is wrong?

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

You might want to consider changing the terms of the argument to take them away from familiar ground. Say "why does it matter whether it's a choice or not, since you haven't shown me any reason why it's wrong."

[Darth Wong]

Don't let them maneuver you into a situation where you have to prove to them that it's not a conscious choice. They're trying to justify mistreatment of gays, so the burden of proof falls on them to justify their supporting claims. People are innocent until proven guilty, so let them prove it.

Wouldn't the use of the term 'innocent' and 'guilty' implicitly imply that homosexuality is wrong?

Arguably, but I find that the only way to make certain people understand the burden of proof when seeking to punish others is to use that magic "innocent until proven guilty" phrase.

[Drooling Iguana]

While the above suggestions are technically correct and would work if the person you're arguing with is a rational person who understands the rules of logic and proper debating, that is rarely the case when dealing with anti-gay bigots. Fortunately, there has been research done that shows an actual physical difference in brain chemistry between homosexuals and heterosexuals, such as this study that shows that homosexuals respond differently to pheromones and this, which shows homosexuality to be genetic.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Ask them when has anyone chosen a preference or desire of any kind. I like spagetti and hate beets; I always have. It would be utterly impossible for me to make myself like beets.

If one could choose preferences, dieting would be easy; it's not. Hell, given teenage rebelliousness if you could choose to be gay, the majority of teens would be gay for a few years to spite the parents.

I don't think science will work as a convincer; when a study came out showing lesbians had a different inner ear structure than straight women, I heard people claim that lesbian sex changed the ears. One wonders what they think lesbians do in bed...

[Darth Wong]

While the above suggestions are technically correct and would work if the person you're arguing with is a rational person who understands the rules of logic and proper debating, that is rarely the case when dealing with anti-gay bigots. Fortunately, there has been research done that shows an actual physical difference in brain chemistry between homosexuals and heterosexuals, such as this study that shows that homosexuals respond differently to pheromones and this, which shows homosexuality to be genetic.

You cannot convince the bigot. He is beyond convincing, he is immune to arguments. The idea of the argument is not to convince him, but to convince the fence-sitters who are watching from the sidelines.

[kheegster]

Ask them when has anyone chosen a preference or desire of any kind. I like spagetti and hate beets; I always have. It would be utterly impossible for me to make myself like beets.

If one could choose preferences, dieting would be easy; it's not.

Bad analogy. As a child who hated vegetables who is now a healthy-eating psycho who hasn't touched McDonalds' for over a year, I can testify that culinary tastes can change fairly easily...

[Lord of the Abyss]

Bad analogy. As a child who hated vegetables who is now a healthy-eating psycho who hasn't touched McDonalds' for over a year, I can testify that culinary tastes can change fairly easily...

Well, I suspect you are the food version of a bisexual, then. Certainly millions of people find it very, very hard to change what they want to eat. I suspect this would work best on a bigot who's on a diet.

[tharkûn]

Fortunately, there has been research done that shows an actual physical difference in brain chemistry between homosexuals and heterosexuals, such as this study that shows that homosexuals respond differently to pheromones and this, which shows homosexuality to be genetic.

Brain chemistry shows correlation not causation. People who meditate show different brain chemistry and that is a conscious activity. Homosexuality could be caused by differing brain chemistry or differing brain chemistry could be caused by homosexuality (saying nothing about what causes that).

Homosexuality CANNOT be genetic. There most likely is a genetic component, but discordant twin sets show conclusively that it cannot be wholly 'caused' genetics.

Ask first why it matters, this tends to show their motivations. Then ask them to prove their case.

Getting into a technical debate is meaningless. 90% of people aren't going to know enough biology, chemistry, or genetics to follow the evidence and will base their understanding on whomever has the best rhetorical flair when explaining the evidence.

[Drooling Iguana]

While the above suggestions are technically correct and would work if the person you're arguing with is a rational person who understands the rules of logic and proper debating, that is rarely the case when dealing with anti-gay bigots. Fortunately, there has been research done that shows an actual physical difference in brain chemistry between homosexuals and heterosexuals, such as this study that shows that homosexuals respond differently to pheromones and this, which shows homosexuality to be genetic.

You cannot convince the bigot. He is beyond convincing, he is immune to arguments. The idea of the argument is not to convince him, but to convince the fence-sitters who are watching from the sidelines.

Still, many of those fence-sitters won't know the proper rules governing burden of proof and the like, so by focusing on why you shouldn't have to prove your case instead of actually proving it you'll look like you're just evading the issue. Sure, technically you'll be right, but it won't do any good.

[frogcurry]

Sexuality has been proven to depend partially on your order of birth - if you are born as a 4th or 5th child (talking males here, can't talk about women) then you are more likely to be gay. This is an indication of nature having a role to play, although it doesn't rule out choice or nurture as factors still.

Hunt it on the BBC website or similar, it was carried in all the major news sites earlier this year or late last year.

Proving it beyond that sort of indicator of factors is nigh on impossible though as far I can think. Sexuality can change in people occasionally, but the whys are a debate in themselves.

You could also role out the old "gay animals" theory (based on same-sex activity in various species) but I think that its a bad idea to do that really... a male fly screwing a male fly in the middle of a mass orgy of rapid reproduction isn't really indicative of human behaviours with all the factors that adds in.

[Plekhanov]

I am constatly plagued by idiots who think that a person's sexual preference is a conscious choice. Are there any prestigious research groups or universities that have done research on the topic that I can quote to refute these deluded fools?

Aside from the use of prestigious sources that they will quite likely handwave away, a useful tactic can sometimes be to use their “sexuality is a choice” bs on them by asking them when they elected to repress their homosexual tendencies and choose heterosexuality.

This is not only useful in exposing the absurdity in arguments that people choose who they’re attracted to but can also be highly amusing if you put some homophobe in the situation of having to either admit they are attracted to men but choose not to act on their homosexual tendencies or admit that they didn’t actually choose to be straight. Word of warning though this tactic can backfire on “saved” gays who’re attempting to go straight.

[Plekhanov]

just remembered there was a recent thread around here with a fairly comprehensive example of such questions.... and after a little searching here it is

A friend of mine sent me this and I thought I would share. I rather liked it.

HETEROSEXUALITY QUESTIONAIRE

(Attributed to Martin Rochlin, PhD, January 1977)

What do you think has caused you to be heterosexual?

When and how did you first decide you were a heterosexual?

Is it possible your heterosexuality stems from a neurotic fear of people of the same sex?

If you've never slept with a person of the same sex, how do you know you wouldn't prefer it?

Isn't it possible your heterosexuality is just a phase you may grow out of?

Isn't it possible that all you need is a good gay lover?

If heterosexuality is normal, why are a desproportionate number of mental patients heterosexual?

To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies? How did they react?

Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex? Why are they so promiscuous?

Do heterosexuals hate and/ or distrust others of their own sex? Is that what makes them heterosexual?

If you were to have children, would you want them to be heterosexual knowing the problems they'd face?

Your heterosecuality doesn't offend me as long as you don't try to force it on me. Why do you feel compelled to seduce others into your sexual orientation?

How can you ever hope to become a whole person if you limit yourself to a compulsive, exclusively heterosexual lifestyle, and remain unwilling to explore and develop your homosexual potential?

Heterosexuals are noted for assigning themselves and each other to narrowly restricted, stereotyped sex-roles. Why do you cling to such unhealthy role playing?

Even with all the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiralling. Why are there so few stable realtionships among heterosexuals?

How could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual like you, considering the menace of over population?

There seen to be very few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that could help you change if you really wanted to. Have you considered trying psychotherapy or even aversion therapy?

Could you really trust a heterosexual therapist/counsellor to be objective and unbiased? Don't you fear he/she might be inclined to influence you in the direction of his/her own preferences?

How can you enjoy a full, satisfying sexual experience or deep emotional rapport with a person of the opposite sex when the differences are so vast? How can a man understand what pleases a woman, or vice-versa?

And it would even seem to be prestigious look a guy with a PhD did it and everything

[Frank Hipper]

I chose to be homosexual due to giving in to lust, a desire to mock Our LORD, and the influence of liberal media and secular humanist propaganda in schools.

Now, I ingest feces on a regular basis, recruit the young, and can look forward to dying 20 years earlier than Godly heterosexuals.

And it's all the Evolutionists' fault.

Oh, and Bill Clinton lied.


Seriously, you have no hope arguing with true believers, give it up. But if you're going to try, use the tactics that Mike suggests. Their claims, they get to prove them.

[Techno_Union]

What about the fact that homosexuality has been seen in many different animal species? It's not as though one of these animals made the decision to be gay... or would that not be a good point. I've been thinking about that for a while, but it seems that there are many differences (obviously) between animals and Humans, so it might not be a valid point.

I just find it odd that people who attempt to say that it's not natural, or people make themselves gay, ignore the fact that it's not just Humans who have displayed homosexual tendencies -- how would you explain the animals? *shrugs* But I really don't know much on the subject other than my personal opinion.

[Setzer]

That's right! Nobody is born gay! They choose to become gay, because they're evil godless muslim fanatics and want to destroy society!
/SARCASM]

[The Grim Squeaker]

Actually is Homesexuality against Islam (by the book, not fundie interpretation)?

[Firefox]

Yes.