Regarding Dark Jedi and Sith

[Battlehymn Republic]

According to Wikipedia, all Sith are Dark Jedi, but not all Dark Jedi are Sith. However, it still seems as virtually all D.J.s are still evil, and Mara Jade wasn’t technically a Sith, but she was still Imperial. If she wasn’t a Dark Jedi, then I just don’t know what to make of her- she was the freaking Emperor’s Hand! The Light Side and Dark Side are basically good and evil, unlike the difference in Jade Empire, yet there’s still the stoicism vs. emotional expression emphasis. So, could there be a Dark Jedi who fought against the Sith, yet was technically not evil? I’m pretty sure that’s how KOTOR works, yet it seems that if you give in to the Dark Side, you become evil regardless of your group affiliations (like “law and order” Emperor Solo in Wong’s “Conquest”).

On the other hand, could there be an emotionally detached Light Side Jedi that killed in cruel ways and was immoral? I’m thinking of one who is like a bounty hunter. Would the immorality lead he or she to the dark side, regardless of emotional detachment? I wonder if you can successfully brainwash a Force latent youngling, then remove the hypothalamus and make him emotionless, like Dengar.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Sith, Dark jedi and other dark side user's fight each other constantly, (that was the reason for the rule of 2) so Dark jedi would fight Sith.

A emotionally detached Jedi who killed in a non detached (cruel) way is a paradox, if he acted like that then he would be cast out of the order and probably fall to the dark side by using those method's for diminishing provocation.

[Kurgan]

According to Wikipedia, all Sith are Dark Jedi, but not all Dark Jedi are Sith.

That's incorrect since Maul & Sideous were never Jedi. Somebody should correct that... Dark Jedi are Jedi who have fallen to the Dark Side. Sith are their own religion. Vader & Dooku could be both since they converted I guess. Theoretically you could use the Dark Side of the Force and be neither. Jedi and Sith are just "religions" of the Force and ways of being trained.

Unless of course "Jedi" suddenly means "Force sensitive" in which case all force sensitives are Jedi, regardless of their connection to the Jedi Order or lack thereof.

[Glimmervoid]

According to Wikipedia, all Sith are Dark Jedi, but not all Dark Jedi are Sith.

That’s not right at all. To be a Sith you need to be trained by a Sith to the point were your training were complete and you are capable of killing your master but being able to kill your master is not all ways the case(e.g. I don’t think Darth Maul could kill the emperor but he was still a Sith).

To be a dark Jedi you need to have been a member of the Jedi order (probably at least a knight) and to have abandoned the order in favour of the dark side. What you do after that is not important, a dark Jedi could train as a Sith and become both but it is by no means a given.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Dammit, who knew black and white in itself could be so complicated?

I need a chart.

[Pcm979]

It's really quite simple.

Jedi are a religious order devoted to the Light Side of the Force
Sith are a religious order devoted to the Dark Side of the Force
Dark Jedi is a term used to describe practitioners of the Dark Side (Not always Sith) who used to be members of the Jedi Order.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Yeah, but are all Dark Jedi evil?

[Noble Ire]

Yeah, but are all Dark Jedi evil?

Depends on your definition of evil.

Anyways, I wonder where the likes of Mara Jade and Kyle Katarn fall into this.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Wikipedia says Katarn is Grey Jedi, non-order but not Dark.

It also says Dark Jedi include not exactly evil like Mara Jade, and not exactly Sith but evil people like Imperial Guards.

There needs to be a generic term for Force user.

[Pcm979]

Might I point out that Wikipedia is as canon as my farts.

[Noble Ire]

Wikipedia says Katarn is Grey Jedi, non-order but not Dark.

It also says Dark Jedi include not exactly evil like Mara Jade, and not exactly Sith but evil people like Imperial Guards.

There needs to be a generic term for Force user.

How can Imperial Guards be "Dark Jedi?" That makes no sense at all.

[Lord Revan]

Anyways, I wonder where the likes of Mara Jade and Kyle Katarn fall into this.

well they were never truly Dark Jedi (and both are at moment IIRC on the lightside).

And Dark Jedi is sometimes used to mean "Dark Side user with some training" and look in certain way all Sith are in fact Dark Jedi as Sith Order is a Jedi Order that has fallen to the Dark Side.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Wikipedia says Katarn is Grey Jedi, non-order but not Dark.

It also says Dark Jedi include not exactly evil like Mara Jade, and not exactly Sith but evil people like Imperial Guards.

There needs to be a generic term for Force user.

How can Imperial Guards be "Dark Jedi?" That makes no sense at all.

I'll need to dig out the article. Again, there needs to be a generic term for Force user. The Royal Guards are Force latent, as are the old Senate Guards.

Might I point out that Wikipedia is as canon as my farts.

But it sure sounds authoritative!

[Lord Revan]

How can Imperial Guards be "Dark Jedi?" That makes no sense at all.

cause Dark Jedi is used to mean somebody with training on the Dark Side (and some Red Guards have that).

[Battlehymn Republic]

Dark Jedi is a somewhat misleading name given in the Star Wars fictional universe to those beings that are Force-attuned and adept at the dark side of the Force. Dark Jedi are not to be confused with Sith, that is, the Sith Order has its own codes and secrets, which are not known to any non-member even though who join the dark side of the Force. Dark Jedi usually refers to former Jedi who join the dark side. The first Dark Jedi led by Xendor were the ancestors of the Sith.

Because the term Sith was never heard from the dialogues in the original trilogy, early Expanded Universe products usually considered the "Evil Jedi", those who joined the dark side of the Force, as "Dark Jedi". In his famous novel series The Thrawn Trilogy, author Timothy Zahn labeled Sith Lord Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine as Dark Jedi, and the term "Sith" was never mentioned in the series.

Dark Jedi use Force power for their own ends while attempting to utilize other powers of the Force, owing no allegiance. Strength and abilities are unrounded and often unhoned, e.g. while a Dark Jedi can use Jedi and Sith Force arts, only a true Jedi or Sith can master its nuances. True Sith and Jedi must be ordained and approved by their respective masters.

The term is a convenient shorthand description for such beings who can manipulate the Force. But it is nevertheless a misleading designation for the reason that many, if not most Dark Jedi, have never actually been members of the Jedi Order (especially after the Great Jedi Purge, in which case would be impossible). Emperor Palpatine trained many Force-sensitive beings in the ways of the Dark Side of the Force, but were never given the rights of Sith. Force-sensitive individuals seem to arise spontaneously and may definitely become adept at the Force without Jedi or Sith involvement. It is true, however, that many notable Dark Jedi have received at least some Jedi training.

It is also worthy of note that a Dark Jedi may not necessarily be evil. Dark Jedi are simply Force users that allow their emotions to empower them, rather than the Jedi method of purging emotion and gaining power via meditation and practice. Mara Jade is a primary example of a Dark Jedi who was able to use her abilities without being completely brainwashed by the Sith. Eventually, she turned from the Dark Side, but still carried the teachings of Emperor Palpatine with her, such as her lightsaber techniques.

Most notable among the Dark Jedi (besides the Sith Lords) is Asajj Ventress, Joruus C'Baoth, and (previously) Mara Jade.

---
Dark Jedi
The Lords of the Sith are not the only ones capable of calling upon the corrupting powers of the dark side of the Force, though they are by far the most dangerous Force-wielding foes of the Jedi. The blanket label "Dark Jedi" is often used to refer to non-Sith Force-users, though these Darksiders may never have been true Jedi, as can be seen by the countless "Dark Jedi" trained during the reign of the Empire, during which the Jedi Order was dead and gone.

During the Clone Wars, Sidious and Tyranus had a number of Dark Jedi serving the Separatist side. Among the most notable of Count Dooku's inner circle were Asajj Ventress, Sora Bulq, Artel Darc, Dustrose, Karoc, Vinoc, Sev'rance Tann, Nikkos Tyris, Saato, Tol Skorr, Kadrian Sey, Drevekka Hoctu, Trenox, and Quinlan Vos. Sidious, as Emperor, continued this trend after the formation of the Empire, with Dark Jedi such as the Inquisitorius, the Secret Order, the Emperor's Hands, the Dark Side Elite, the Emperor's Royal Guard, and various Dark Side Adepts. After the death of the Emperor, the Inquisitor Jerec and his cadre of six Dark Jedi made an attempt to seize the Valley of the Jedi, the place of imprisonment of all those who were destroyed by Kaan's thought bomb during the Battle of Ruusan; Jerec and his cohorts, however, were eliminated by Kyle Katarn. New Dark Jedi are constantly crawling out of the woodwork, some of them fallen students of Luke Skywalker, like Gantoris, Kyp Durron, Brakiss, Kueller, Tavion, and Desann.

Souces:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Jedi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith

[Winston Blake]

BTW, if a Jedi who turns to the dark side becomes a Dark Jedi, can a Sith turn to the light side and become a 'Lite Sith' (99% fat free)? Are there any occurances of Sith-trained force users abandoning the dark side and using their powers for good?

Yoda's 'forever will it dominate your destiny' doesn't seem to be a hard rule since we have people like Kyle Katarn (and not to mention TPM Obi-wan and Luke) who've used the Dark Side a teensy bit, yet not turned.

[Lord Revan]

BTW, if a Jedi who turns to the dark side becomes a Dark Jedi, can a Sith turn to the light side and become a 'Lite Sith' (99% fat free)? Are there any occurances of Sith-trained force users abandoning the dark side and using their powers for good?

Yoda's 'forever will it dominate your destiny' doesn't seem to be a hard rule since we have people like Kyle Katarn (and not to mention TPM Obi-wan and Luke) who've used the Dark Side a teensy bit, yet not turned.

well it's possible for a Sith to (re)turn to a Jedi, but unlikely and most cases involve outside inference.

[Cykeisme]

I think it's pretty obvious from the terms that a "Dark Jedi" is someone who was once a member of the Jedi Order, who has fallen to the Dark Side of the Force. Some podunk Dark Side user isn't a Dark Jedi any more than a podunk Light Side user would be a Jedi.. unless they had become members of the Jedi Order.
It really makes no sense that Imperial Guards are "Dark Jedi", since they were never Jedi (or are any of them ex-Jedi?).

A plain ol' Dark Side user who has never had affiliation to neither the Jedi nor the Sith Order would simply be "Dark Side adepts" or "Dark Side acolytes", or some generic term to that effect.


A Light Sith is certainly possible. Just as a Dark Jedi is a Jedi who has gone to the Dark Side, a Light Sith would be a Sith who's turned to the Light; that's what Anakin Skywalker is, after he throws Sidious over the railing.

[Lex]

the first Sith were Jedi who had fallen to the dark. they found an alien race called Sith, and made themselves the "gods" of this race, now calling themselves 'Lord of the Sith'. Therefore, ALL Sith are Dark Jedi

[The Grim Squeaker]

No, second generation sith developed their own tradition's, look at the Sith after Bane's rule of 2- they developed their own style and knowledge of the force and not just the dark side

[Glimmervoid]

the first Sith were Jedi who had fallen to the dark. they found an alien race called Sith, and made themselves the "gods" of this race, now calling themselves 'Lord of the Sith'. Therefore, ALL Sith are Dark Jedi

No because the second generation were never members of the Jedi order. There is more than just knowledge to being a Jedi. You needed to have devoted your self to the light side (at least for a time) and have gone through the formal tests.

[Lord Pounder]

Dark Jedi is a somewhat misleading name given in the Star Wars fictional universe to those beings that are Force-attuned and adept at the dark side of the Force. Dark Jedi are not to be confused with Sith, that is, the Sith Order has its own codes and secrets, which are not known to any non-member even though who join the dark side of the Force. Dark Jedi usually refers to former Jedi who join the dark side. The first Dark Jedi led by Xendor were the ancestors of the Sith.

Because the term Sith was never heard from the dialogues in the original trilogy, early Expanded Universe products usually considered the "Evil Jedi", those who joined the dark side of the Force, as "Dark Jedi". In his famous novel series The Thrawn Trilogy, author Timothy Zahn labeled Sith Lord Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine as Dark Jedi, and the term "Sith" was never mentioned in the series.

Dark Jedi use Force power for their own ends while attempting to utilize other powers of the Force, owing no allegiance. Strength and abilities are unrounded and often unhoned, e.g. while a Dark Jedi can use Jedi and Sith Force arts, only a true Jedi or Sith can master its nuances. True Sith and Jedi must be ordained and approved by their respective masters.

The term is a convenient shorthand description for such beings who can manipulate the Force. But it is nevertheless a misleading designation for the reason that many, if not most Dark Jedi, have never actually been members of the Jedi Order (especially after the Great Jedi Purge, in which case would be impossible). Emperor Palpatine trained many Force-sensitive beings in the ways of the Dark Side of the Force, but were never given the rights of Sith. Force-sensitive individuals seem to arise spontaneously and may definitely become adept at the Force without Jedi or Sith involvement. It is true, however, that many notable Dark Jedi have received at least some Jedi training.

It is also worthy of note that a Dark Jedi may not necessarily be evil. Dark Jedi are simply Force users that allow their emotions to empower them, rather than the Jedi method of purging emotion and gaining power via meditation and practice. Mara Jade is a primary example of a Dark Jedi who was able to use her abilities without being completely brainwashed by the Sith. Eventually, she turned from the Dark Side, but still carried the teachings of Emperor Palpatine with her, such as her lightsaber techniques.

Most notable among the Dark Jedi (besides the Sith Lords) is Asajj Ventress, Joruus C'Baoth, and (previously) Mara Jade.

---
Dark Jedi
The Lords of the Sith are not the only ones capable of calling upon the corrupting powers of the dark side of the Force, though they are by far the most dangerous Force-wielding foes of the Jedi. The blanket label "Dark Jedi" is often used to refer to non-Sith Force-users, though these Darksiders may never have been true Jedi, as can be seen by the countless "Dark Jedi" trained during the reign of the Empire, during which the Jedi Order was dead and gone.

During the Clone Wars, Sidious and Tyranus had a number of Dark Jedi serving the Separatist side. Among the most notable of Count Dooku's inner circle were Asajj Ventress, Sora Bulq, Artel Darc, Dustrose, Karoc, Vinoc, Sev'rance Tann, Nikkos Tyris, Saato, Tol Skorr, Kadrian Sey, Drevekka Hoctu, Trenox, and Quinlan Vos. Sidious, as Emperor, continued this trend after the formation of the Empire, with Dark Jedi such as the Inquisitorius, the Secret Order, the Emperor's Hands, the Dark Side Elite, the Emperor's Royal Guard, and various Dark Side Adepts. After the death of the Emperor, the Inquisitor Jerec and his cadre of six Dark Jedi made an attempt to seize the Valley of the Jedi, the place of imprisonment of all those who were destroyed by Kaan's thought bomb during the Battle of Ruusan; Jerec and his cohorts, however, were eliminated by Kyle Katarn. New Dark Jedi are constantly crawling out of the woodwork, some of them fallen students of Luke Skywalker, like Gantoris, Kyp Durron, Brakiss, Kueller, Tavion, and Desann.

Souces:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Jedi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith

And? Do you have a problem reading or understanding. Wiki entries are as relevant as fan fiction and in some cases much less consistant.

[VT-16]

Might I point out that Wikipedia is as canon as my farts.

From my experience the Star Wars Wikipedia does not accept 'fanon' sources, so stuff it.

[Noble Ire]

Might I point out that Wikipedia is as canon as my farts.

From my experience the Star Wars Wikipedia does not accept 'fanon' sources, so stuff it.

I believe he is refering to the fact that anyone can make a wikipedia entry, and anyone can alter said entries. Thus, the actual info in each article is highly suspect.

[Pcm979]

Might I point out that Wikipedia is as canon as my farts.

From my experience the Star Wars Wikipedia does not accept 'fanon' sources, so stuff it.

Did you feel your hair ruffle just then? That was my point, zooming overhead. Wikipedia entries, as I understand it, are written by average people with absolutely no connection whatsoever to Lucasarts. Average people presumably without perfect memories who can get things wrong, as shown above. Unless you want to claim that all Sith are Dark Jedi.

Edit: What Noble Ire said. (Hey, weren't you called Gustavsomething?)