Yuuzhan Vong in the Delta Quadrant

[Darth Yoshi]

Assume that Voyager never allies with the Borg, that Scorpion never happened, with Voyager finding a different path through the Delta Quadrant. The target galaxy of the Yuuzhan Vong was actually the Milky Way. Vector Prime lands them about 100 lightyears from Borg territory. The Yuuzhan Vong arrive just in time to witness S8472 royally fuck the Borg. What happens?

[Crayz9000]

Vector Prime lands them about 100 lightyears from Borg territory. The Yuuzhan Vong arrive just in time to witness S8472 royally fuck the Borg. What happens?

With their intense hatred of machines, the warrior castes would immediately want to begin hitting the Borg. However, the political caste would likely attempt to restrain the warriors while they scope out the situation in the galaxy.

Species 8472 would be an interesting conflict. Given that they can only communicate telepathically (as of VOY: 'Scorpion') the yammosk could communicate with them easily. I'd say that there would be a good chance of the two races allying, but I wouldn't take it for granted.

[Sea Skimmer]

The Vong ass rape everyone. They've got the firepower and protection to stand toe to toe with normal Star Wars technology, and we know what that does to Star Trek. The Vong might have boarding problems, but with there universally issuing of highly effective hand to hand weapons they should be fine, assuming the black holes don’t fuck over the transporters and the Borg last long enough to start transporting.

[consequences]

The Borg would be a non-issue in any case, Species 8472 was ripping htem apart with ease.

[Lord of the Farce]

Hmmm... I wonder how Borg Drones will do against warriors who can almost (in some cases, "can") stand toe-to-toe against Jedi opponents.

[Vympel]

Hmmm... I wonder how Borg Drones will do against warriors who can almost (in some cases, "can") stand toe-to-toe against Jedi opponents.

Understatement of the century

They're the most pathetic fighters in all of Star Trek. Oh no, a drone is lurching slowly towards me- I'll just walk away at a brisk pace, I'll be right.

[consequences]

Brisk pace? Why exert yourself, you might pull a muscle or something.

[Vympel]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I needed that ... frigging study.

[TheDarkling]

The Borg cant out firepower the Vong and they cant technobabble their way out of it (TNG Borg could have but Voyager borg - no way), I suppose they could just ram the Vong since the Vong have ships numbering in the 1000s (cap ships) whereas the Borg have 100,000s - 1,000,000s.

The Unknown factor is 8472 here but they would probably turn on the Vong and also get some heavy damage (they werent exactly masters of war tactics).

The Vong then hammer on the DQ races (if by this time they havent ran out of people which could eaily happen before the Borg were finished off) and eventually reach the GQ and the Dominoin certainly ram em to death or they bug the FKR's and get technobabbled to death.

[Kuja]

Assume that Voyager never allies with the Borg, that Scorpion never happened, with Voyager finding a different path through the Delta Quadrant. The target galaxy of the Yuuzhan Vong was actually the Milky Way. Vector Prime lands them about 100 lightyears from Borg territory. The Yuuzhan Vong arrive just in time to witness S8472 royally fuck the Borg. What happens?

The Borg are obviously a nonissue, with their homeworld (or whatever) shattered. What's left gets mopped up. 8472 fight a few skirmishes with the Vong and decide to back off when the YV start wiping them out.

The galaxy is left to the Vong, ripe for conquering.

[Mr Bean]

I suppose they could just ram the Vong since the Vong have ships numbering in the 1000s (cap ships) whereas the Borg have 100,000s - 1,000,000s.

FYI Darkling, Vong Ships use minture Sigulatries as shielding devices meaning that attempting to ram them is not all that effective

Your basicly trying to ram through small Black Holes and we all know how well that works....

[Lex]

bean's right....and why ran out of man? if they use only their slaves in ground combat, they'dwin the war I'd say...

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Vong also have good shipbuilding speed. They turn planets they shatter with their mooncrash thing into "shipwombs" and were able to build a growing worldship (these rank from like Executor to Death Star I size) within a year.

[TheDarkling]

Mr Bean: Those black holes arent always on, have a very limited range of effect, can be taken out by IDF tech and are actually controled in a similar fashion to having gunnery crews except they have void crews.

Taking into account that info the blackholes would be defeated by the IDF of any ST race not to mention it would be good fun to see a vong void crew react FTL when trek ships start ramming them at warp.

They do have manpower problems ask Ender the resident NJO expert - he made a thread saying I was correct when I stated they had said problem.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The voids are automatically controlled by the dovin basals. Coralskippers throw out voids automatically, remember?

Manpower problems that allow the Vong to only take and hold 1/2 of the SW galaxy does not translate into problems taking the Milky Way.

[TheDarkling]

Ermm yes they would have people problems trying to hold (or even take) the milkyway,they hadlost very little in the first year of the war and they were strapped for people then.

As for the Dovin basals being automated thats what I always though but Im reading Star By Star at the moment and it describe cap ships having crews that control the dovin basals so im guessing only skips have automated ones.

[Master of Ossus]

Ermm yes they would have people problems trying to hold (or even take) the milkyway,they hadlost very little in the first year of the war and they were strapped for people then.

As for the Dovin basals being automated thats what I always though but Im reading Star By Star at the moment and it describe cap ships having crews that control the dovin basals so im guessing only skips have automated ones.

It seems that capital ships have some consoles that control dovin basals, but the majority of blocks are made automatically. Pilots seem to be able to control how much of their dovin basal's attention they want to shielding, and how much to propulsion, but the blocking seems to be done without necessitating commands from the pilot to do so.

[Illuminatus Primus]

There's nothing in Trek that'd well destroy the Vong. They'd take Vong with them and it would be more fair then the Empire vs. Trek, but the conclusion is still inevitable if they have gigaton-teraton level weaponry.

The crews probably direct the basals to focus their efforts along certain areas, increasing defensive efficiency.

[Sea Skimmer]

The Vong could land enough ground troops to wipe out much of Coruscant's population and ground defenses and troops. That would require tens of billion of warriors even if they only had to face the planets police, let alone all the armed civilians and troops.

Manpower wont be an issue.

[Ender]

Mr Bean: Those black holes arent always on, have a very limited range of effect, can be taken out by IDF tech and are actually controled in a similar fashion to having gunnery crews except they have void crews.

Taking into account that info the blackholes would be defeated by the IDF of any ST race not to mention it would be good fun to see a vong void crew react FTL when trek ships start ramming them at warp.

They do have manpower problems ask Ender the resident NJO expert - he made a thread saying I was correct when I stated they had said problem.

1) What does IDF mean?
2) Voids are controlled by the ship itself, but can have specific commands given by the Vong.
3) There is a manpower shortage. It is a result of 2 factors: The caste changes during the long voyage, and Tsavong Lah's strategy.

During the voyage, there was no one to fight, so the leaders of other castes began siphoning off warriors into their own castes and dommains to make them more powerful. The end result was that the warriors lost their best and brightest, and the overall population shrunk (to the low trillions-billions, but in galactic conquest that is a tiny overall military force).

The other, larger cause of manpower shortage can't be as easily counted on. The other factor was Tsavong Lah's pathetic strategy. Frankly, Nas Chakota, Shedaio Shai and the others did a far better job then Lah did. Wasteful attacks on Yag'Dul, a system outside the attack zone that could have been dealt with simply by putting DBs on asteroid and slamming them into the shipyards. Duros could have had the cityships simple bombarded or crashed with DBs instead of crashing one or two and ramming the others. Lah lost millions in the battle for Corusant (20,000 to Borsk alone) most of which could have been saved with a different plan. While we don't know much about the particular defenses of Coruscant at the time (they may have forced his hand) he could have done several things differently to improve it. First off, he attacked Coruscant with only half his forces out of religious imperitive. Had he waited for reinforcements or drastically changed the plan (insert agents to disable the shields instead of ramming them), many could have been saved. Second, he dropped out of darkspace (Vong FTL, similar to hyperspace, but slower) at the edge of the system instead of around the planet like he could have. As a result, the battle of Coruscant lasted almost a week. A week of fighting through parts of 3 seperate NR fleets. He lost 7 battle groups to Wedge and the Jedi alone. Dropping directly out could have saved them. Third, he didn't compensate for a change in minefield tactics. Gosh, they let you into the middle of their defenses where you can get hammered by the ground battaries from oneside, the Golans right where you are, and the mines on the otherside. Maybe you should bring up your shields immediatly, instead of waiting for them to start firing. Fourth, any damaged ships, instead of retreating, rammed right into the planetary shields. A retread by damaged forces could have saved them, and their loss would not have changed the outcome, as we saw. Fifth, He attacked the planet on all sides instead of focussing on a small area. Not only did this mena he was exposed ot more defenses, it also consumed time, the most precious commedity in a battle. Had he focused everything on one section of the shields they would have been down sooner. The loss of a domain at Borealis (think the entire population of a good sized colony, a coulpe million) is a total joke that could have been avoided if he had listened to advice. Then he cost the Vong the last of their offensive fleet at Tarkin's Fang, a mistake that could have been averted had he once again listened to advice. Basically, the guy followed the old stormie axiom ("We'll capture this or choke the hallways with our dead!").

Now different situations will negate a large portion of Lah's mistakes. But that mindset will cost them horribly. The one saving grace is that unlike the NR, there is no galaxy wide organization here. They could fight like Lah want's them two, spend a few generations rebuilding, then move on again. In either case it won't be this rapid assault.

[Ender]

Species 8472 would be an interesting conflict. Given that they can only communicate telepathically (as of VOY: 'Scorpion') the yammosk could communicate with them easily. I'd say that there would be a good chance of the two races allying, but I wouldn't take it for granted.

Negative. You do not ally with the Vong. They would make pretenses, but then betray and try to shape the 8s. Even the Peace Brigade was steadily starting to use vong equipment and recieving implants, making them slaves rather then allies.

[TheDarkling]

Master of Ossus: Skips do have a sort of Basal allocation system -% to shields or engines, however Star By Star actually has shield crews directing the Dovin basals shielding and grabing etc.

Im not sure on this point but I seem to remember something about the shielding crews being mislead or a line about their reactions, however the point still stands that even if the basals control themselves they still havent shown the ability to react ftl (that im aware of) and they have been nullified by an IDF, meaning a SF ship could easily use some technobabble and the Vong ships are shieldless and dead in the water.

Not to mention that we still dont know what effect transporters will have on dovin basals but with the shielding crew idea im leaning towards transporters sneaking by (Vong sensors are visual and gravity based right? since transporters seem to be simply energy I dont see them showing up on either system).

[Ender]

The Vong could land enough ground troops to wipe out much of Coruscant's population and ground defenses and troops. That would require tens of billion of warriors even if they only had to face the planets police, let alone all the armed civilians and troops.

Manpower wont be an issue.

Yes it will. Because you will have a good chunk of those dead. Then you need to leave a bunch there to hold it from the civillians. Then you need to repeat this on world after world.

They use of slaves would alleviate this, and it does, but the slaves can be handled by recieving vaccinations against the implants so that captured personnel can't be turned, or by removing them afterwards.

Plus there is the issue of manning the ships. Their ship production capabilities make Homeworld look pathetic. They entered the Galaxy with 1000 large ships, and an unknown amount of dying, not combat worldships. 2 years later they had enough ships that they could defend all their planets, launch several feints at the same time as a major offensive and a few smaller offenses, and not consider the loss of 1000 capitla ships, plus tenders and coralskippers a major setback, simply an unacceptable delay in the timeframe of the next major push that they had to compensate for. The problem is not a shortage of ships, but a lack of crew. The ground warriors can be taught to operate a ship fairly simply, as it takes less the three months, but if you don't have the personnel to reeducate, you don't have the peole to man the ships and you can't advance.

And they didn't take out most of Coruscant, they shipped it away. Those that died did so largely by crashing Golans, lack of a steady supply of resources Courscant requires, and by all the toxins and what not released by the vongforming.

[TheDarkling]

Ender: Inertial Dampening Field.

The Vong are morons when it comes to planning a war only the fact that the NR senate couldnt even spell war (it would take to much time that could be better spent backstabbing the other senators) allowed them to actually gain ground.

The fact that in the first 2 years of a war the NR went on the offensive once (taking out the worldship) and the rest of the actions were small bands of fighters (mainly Jedi led), the NR military was rather small and spread out too much and the individual defense fleets wouldnt step outside their own systems - this enabled the Vong to take out system after system and have a large advantage in numbers, of course this doesnt take into account the number of system that didnt even put up a fight or even switched sides.

[Ender]

There's nothing in Trek that'd well destroy the Vong. They'd take Vong with them and it would be more fair then the Empire vs. Trek, but the conclusion is still inevitable if they have gigaton-teraton level weaponry.

While the density of Yorik coral is a question (it is apparently weaker then durasteel, as it should be, but it is strong enough that a dome of it could withstand the destruction of a planet if you have DB shileds to augment it, wtf?), I don't think it could stop transporters. They also lack ECM, as their only form of jamming is launching mini basals at a target to absorb communications and sensors. They also severly lack range and response time (All three combined explain why the relativistic straffing is possible). As a result, beaming bombs inside could be a very viable tactic. Problem is if they get smart and use the FTL capable coralshippers (what I call the heavy fighters), they can chew the ships to pieces without the big cruisers needing to get imvolved.