Regarding Dark Jedi and Sith

PSW: discuss Star Wars without "versus" arguments.

Moderator: Vympel

User avatar
Noble Ire
The Arbiter
Posts: 5938
Joined: 2005-04-30 12:03am
Location: Beyond the Outer Rim

Post by Noble Ire »

Edit: What Noble Ire said. (Hey, weren't you called Gustavsomething?)
I was once Pure Sabacc, but that name means nothing to me now. :wink:
The Rift
Stanislav Petrov- The man who saved the world
Hugh Thompson Jr.- A True American Hero
"In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." - President Barack Obama
"May fortune favor you, for your goals are the goals of the world." - Ancient Chall valediction
User avatar
Instant Sunrise
Jedi Knight
Posts: 945
Joined: 2005-05-31 02:10am
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles del Río de Porciúncula
Contact:

Post by Instant Sunrise »

The thing about wikipedia, is that ANYBODY can edit it. Therefore the information in it cannot be trusted to be 100% accurate.

Furthermore, because it is NOT maintained by anybody with a connection to LucasFilm Ltd. the information is PURELY un-official.
Hi, I'm Liz.
Image
SoS: NBA | GALE Force
Twitter
Tumblr
Pcm979
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 4092
Joined: 2002-10-26 12:45am

Post by Pcm979 »

Noble Ire: I just remembered, that Gustav guy was a troll, wasn't he? *removes foot from mouth* :oops:
I think you both had Akbar avs or something.

Sorry, peeps. Your regular thread service starts again.
User avatar
VT-16
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4662
Joined: 2004-05-13 10:01am
Location: Norway

Post by VT-16 »

I believe he is refering to the fact that anyone can make a wikipedia entry, and anyone can alter said entries. Thus, the actual info in each article is highly suspect.
Actually, most articles with little or no valid sources get deleted and fanon is outright banned. If anything, contributors simply write about things that are seen, but not chronicled and make sure to note if a particular piece of info is speculation or not.
Did you feel your hair ruffle just then?
How could you possibly tell? :P
That was my point, zooming overhead. Wikipedia entries, as I understand it, are written by average people with absolutely no connection whatsoever to Lucasarts. Average people presumably without perfect memories who can get things wrong, as shown above.
And I state my counterclaim above.
Unless you want to claim that all Sith are Dark Jedi.
Technically, they are, since the Sith were originally an off-shoot of the Jedi. :P
User avatar
Mange
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4179
Joined: 2004-03-26 01:31pm
Location: Somewhere in the GFFA

Post by Mange »

Pcm979 wrote:Noble Ire: I just remembered, that Gustav guy was a troll, wasn't he? *removes foot from mouth* :oops:
I think you both had Akbar avs or something.

Sorry, peeps. Your regular thread service starts again.
Could you be thinking about Gustav32Vasa? But he isn't a troll.
Pcm979
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 4092
Joined: 2002-10-26 12:45am

Post by Pcm979 »

That's like saying that chimpanzees are technically gorillas; They've had millenia of divergent evolution.
Pcm979
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 4092
Joined: 2002-10-26 12:45am

Post by Pcm979 »

Mange the Swede wrote:Could you be thinking about Gustav32Vasa? But he isn't a troll.
*Removes foot from mouth again*

This really isn't my day. :oops:
Kurgan
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4069
Joined: 2002-08-19 08:13pm

Post by Kurgan »

Battlehymn Republic wrote:
I'll need to dig out the article. Again, there needs to be a generic term for Force user. The Royal Guards are Force latent, as are the old Senate Guards.
Huh? I thought that was retconned, since we have zero evidence from the movies that any of those guys have any Force ability whatsoever.

If they were Jedi serving under the helmets, why weren't they purged? If they were Sith, wouldn't that break the rule of two (and wouldn't they be sensed by the Jedi)? Why did Yoda pwn them like they were non-force sensitives?

I would have expected the EU retcon of this contradiction of AOTC/ROTS with Crimson Empire/2 would be "oh well, sometime after the events of ROTS Palpatine put some weak force sensitives in there."

As is they were supposed to be Stormtroopers, implying they were also clones, yet they were in use before the Clone Army was revealed...


I get the feeling this confusion over Dark Jedi/Sith was created from the time that the EU started using the term "Dark Jedi" and it was used to cover any Dark Side user... and wasn't it even coined because Lucas (mostly or at one time) forbade EU authors to get into the history of the Sith until prequel time? (but they did anyway, with those red "aliens" in TOTJ).
User avatar
Noble Ire
The Arbiter
Posts: 5938
Joined: 2005-04-30 12:03am
Location: Beyond the Outer Rim

Post by Noble Ire »

If they were Jedi serving under the helmets, why weren't they purged? If they were Sith, wouldn't that break the rule of two (and wouldn't they be sensed by the Jedi)? Why did Yoda pwn them like they were non-force sensitives?
I've never heard that guardsmen were force sensative either, but if they are, it wouldnt break the rule of two. They would by Dark Jedi (dark force users), at least of a sort. Similar to Assajj Ventriss' position.
The Rift
Stanislav Petrov- The man who saved the world
Hugh Thompson Jr.- A True American Hero
"In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." - President Barack Obama
"May fortune favor you, for your goals are the goals of the world." - Ancient Chall valediction
User avatar
Battlehymn Republic
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1824
Joined: 2004-10-27 01:34pm

Post by Battlehymn Republic »

Regarding guards: read below.
Dark Jedi
The Lords of the Sith are not the only ones capable of calling upon the corrupting powers of the dark side of the Force, though they are by far the most dangerous Force-wielding foes of the Jedi. The blanket label "Dark Jedi" is often used to refer to non-Sith Force-users, though these Darksiders may never have been true Jedi, as can be seen by the countless "Dark Jedi" trained during the reign of the Empire, during which the Jedi Order was dead and gone.

During the Clone Wars, Sidious and Tyranus had a number of Dark Jedi serving the Separatist side. Among the most notable of Count Dooku's inner circle were Asajj Ventress, Sora Bulq, Artel Darc, Dustrose, Karoc, Vinoc, Sev'rance Tann, Nikkos Tyris, Saato, Tol Skorr, Kadrian Sey, Drevekka Hoctu, Trenox, and Quinlan Vos. Sidious, as Emperor, continued this trend after the formation of the Empire, with Dark Jedi such as the Inquisitorius, the Secret Order, the Emperor's Hands, the Dark Side Elite, the Emperor's Royal Guard, and various Dark Side Adepts. After the death of the Emperor, the Inquisitor Jerec and his cadre of six Dark Jedi made an attempt to seize the Valley of the Jedi, the place of imprisonment of all those who were destroyed by Kaan's thought bomb during the Battle of Ruusan; Jerec and his cohorts, however, were eliminated by Kyle Katarn. New Dark Jedi are constantly crawling out of the woodwork, some of them fallen students of Luke Skywalker, like Gantoris, Kyp Durron, Brakiss, Kueller, Tavion, and Desann.
User avatar
Instant Sunrise
Jedi Knight
Posts: 945
Joined: 2005-05-31 02:10am
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles del Río de Porciúncula
Contact:

Post by Instant Sunrise »

Your source?
Hi, I'm Liz.
Image
SoS: NBA | GALE Force
Twitter
Tumblr
User avatar
Ghost Rider
Spirit of Vengeance
Posts: 27779
Joined: 2002-09-24 01:48pm
Location: DC...looking up from the gutters to the stars

Post by Ghost Rider »

Pcm979 wrote:
Mange the Swede wrote:Could you be thinking about Gustav32Vasa? But he isn't a troll.
*Removes foot from mouth again*

This really isn't my day. :oops:
Why?

The fucker was a troll, got labeled and has posted extraordinaly infrequent since then.

Just because some don't think so does not make a person who never backed up one's arguements, consistently said he did, and never gave any logical reason why, is any less of a troll
MM /CF/WG/BOTM/JL/Original Warsie/ACPATHNTDWATGODW FOREVER!!

Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all

Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
Pcm979
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 4092
Joined: 2002-10-26 12:45am

Post by Pcm979 »

Oh, so he *was* a troll. Good, I'm not seeing things. :P
User avatar
Mange
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4179
Joined: 2004-03-26 01:31pm
Location: Somewhere in the GFFA

Post by Mange »

Ghost Rider wrote:
Pcm979 wrote:
Mange the Swede wrote:Could you be thinking about Gustav32Vasa? But he isn't a troll.
*Removes foot from mouth again*

This really isn't my day. :oops:
Why?

The fucker was a troll, got labeled and has posted extraordinaly infrequent since then.

Just because some don't think so does not make a person who never backed up one's arguements, consistently said he did, and never gave any logical reason why, is any less of a troll
Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that he had been labelled and I shouldn't have said anything, but I remembered that he used to post rather frequently. I guess I've been out of the loop. :oops:
User avatar
Noble Ire
The Arbiter
Posts: 5938
Joined: 2005-04-30 12:03am
Location: Beyond the Outer Rim

Post by Noble Ire »

Pcm979 wrote:Oh, so he *was* a troll. Good, I'm not seeing things. :P
So...why did you think I was him?
:P
The Rift
Stanislav Petrov- The man who saved the world
Hugh Thompson Jr.- A True American Hero
"In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." - President Barack Obama
"May fortune favor you, for your goals are the goals of the world." - Ancient Chall valediction
Pcm979
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 4092
Joined: 2002-10-26 12:45am

Post by Pcm979 »

Because I somehow got your avatars mixed up.
Kurgan
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4069
Joined: 2002-08-19 08:13pm

Post by Kurgan »

Point of this is, you don't need to make excuses for Wikipedia, it's written by fans, has no official standing or authority whatsoever, period.

I mean, if you want to get technical, it's only canon when they quote canon (and not out of context). Just like if I were to write something quoted from canon on this forum. ;)

Unlike LucasFilm policy, there's no board of directors or George Lucas to rein it in. Any fan can write up a mistake, any fan can correct it. One of us can go in there right now and rewrite that "mistake" (which it should be obvious it is) and then it'll be "correct." But somebody from LFL will never go through and edit it. Anyway...

Yes, I know, in the EU there are thousands of Dark Jedi working for the Sideous Corporation after the Jedi Purge. The thing is, if these Imperial Guardsmen (and the Senate Guard) were Dark Jedi, don't you think somebody would notice, or their power would get demonstrated?

The only source I know of that says these guys have Force abilities are the Crimson Empire/2 comic books. ANH: Infinities says they have Darth Maul style saber staves (plural of saberstaff; yes, with red blades just like Maul), but then they are so weak that not only can Luke mow down a squad of them himself, Han Solo can hold his own against them... even stabbing one in the back, killing him.

CE wanks these guys up there, but ROTS shows them to be chumps, hence the need for a retcon of somekind. All of these "Dark Jedi enforcers" seem to be invisible until after the Jedi are wiped out, except Assaj Ventress who was just used as pawn fodder to help push Anakin to the Dark Side in CW.

This also gets into whether or not you need to be "really powerful" to mask your Darkside "aura" from Jedi Masters in the same room with you. If you don't, and it's a trick any "Dark Jedi" can possess, then no biggie on that point.
User avatar
Ghost Rider
Spirit of Vengeance
Posts: 27779
Joined: 2002-09-24 01:48pm
Location: DC...looking up from the gutters to the stars

Post by Ghost Rider »

Kurgan wrote:Yes, I know, in the EU there are thousands of Dark Jedi working for the Sideous Corporation after the Jedi Purge. The thing is, if these Imperial Guardsmen (and the Senate Guard) were Dark Jedi, don't you think somebody would notice, or their power would get demonstrated?

The only source I know of that says these guys have Force abilities are the Crimson Empire/2 comic books. ANH: Infinities says they have Darth Maul style saber staves (plural of saberstaff; yes, with red blades just like Maul), but then they are so weak that not only can Luke mow down a squad of them himself, Han Solo can hold his own against them... even stabbing one in the back, killing him.
Using Infinites is bad leap of logic, and poor show of evidence. It in no way disputes what is shown and said in DE 1 & 2 about the Guard.
CE wanks these guys up there, but ROTS shows them to be chumps, hence the need for a retcon of somekind.
Because getting asskicked by Yoda shows them to be weaker then one of the greatest Jedi masters :roll:
MM /CF/WG/BOTM/JL/Original Warsie/ACPATHNTDWATGODW FOREVER!!

Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all

Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
User avatar
Spartan
Jedi Knight
Posts: 678
Joined: 2002-09-12 08:25pm
Location: Chicago, Il

Post by Spartan »

Kurgan wrote:
The only source I know of that says these guys have Force abilities are the Crimson Empire/2 comic books. ANH: Infinities says they have Darth Maul style saber staves (plural of saberstaff; yes, with red blades just like Maul), but then they are so weak that not only can Luke mow down a squad of them himself, Han Solo can hold his own against them... even stabbing one in the back, killing him.
Perhaps not all royal guardsmen are force sensitive, but the Imperial Soverign Protectors described in the Dark Empire Sourcebook are. They are force sensitive, but only have limited training. They were the souce of the Emperor's Dark Jedi in DE & DE2.

By the way getting pounded by the son of the "chosen one" does not make you a punk, just unlucky.

While infinities is non-canon. I just want to point out that Solo only had a chance because the "Fully Trained emotionally stable - son of the Chosen one was with him". Luke was undoutedly screwing with them through the force.
"The enemy outnumbers us a paltry three to one. Good odds for any Greek...."

"Spartans. Ready your breakfast and eat hearty--For tonight we dine in hell!" ~ King Leonidas of Sparta.
Post Reply