"Ethical" Solution to Stem Cell Debate

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Lord of the Abyss
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Post by Lord of the Abyss »

Lord Zentei wrote:Or perhaps you are a wild-eyed pessimist. Your casting of "these people" meaning all Republicans as evil incarnate strikes me as being a tad simplistic. In any case you haven't shown that these compromise attempts would inevitably lead to disaster, while given the current situation, a fundie acceptance of embryonic stem cell use is unthinkable, so treading the same road we're on now will lead nowhere.
I was referring to the Republican leadership, not "all Republicans"; my own father was a Republican, and he did support stem cell research. And yes, I'm a pessimist. I'd rather be right than happy and wrong.
Zero132132 wrote:Abyss, if this compromise would further stem-cell research so that it could actually be done here in the US, I see that as a good thing. You don't because of your apparent extreme hatred for religion, even though it's been shown that the upsides (actually being able to do the research) beat out the downside/other upside (religious people are happy). What's going to be lost here?
Compromise with these people has already been tried, repeatedly, on many issues, and it never works. Given the history, I think you should explain why this time will be different, and not yet another cave in to the fundies.

If a compromise is made, here is my prediction : it's used as ammo in the war against abortian, and the right finds a different excuse to stop the research. No gain, all loss. That's what happens when you compromise with these people.
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Post by Surlethe »

Lord of the Abyss wrote:Compromise with these people has already been tried, repeatedly, on many issues, and it never works.
Examples?
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Post by Lord of the Abyss »

Examples?

Don't ask don't tell. The post 9-11 "bipartisanship" that boiled down to "do what Bush wants". The filibuster "compromise" that let the far right judges in.
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Post by Lord Zentei »

Lord of the Abyss wrote:
Lord Zentei wrote:Or perhaps you are a wild-eyed pessimist. Your casting of "these people" meaning all Republicans as evil incarnate strikes me as being a tad simplistic. In any case you haven't shown that these compromise attempts would inevitably lead to disaster, while given the current situation, a fundie acceptance of embryonic stem cell use is unthinkable, so treading the same road we're on now will lead nowhere.
I was referring to the Republican leadership, not "all Republicans"; my own father was a Republican, and he did support stem cell research. And yes, I'm a pessimist. I'd rather be right than happy and wrong.
See that's the problem right there. This is not simply a choice between being right vs being "happy and wrong", It is a choice between actually trying to find alternative solutions instead of beating the head against a wall repeadedly. You claim that compromise has been tried before and failed, but guess what: being intractable on this issue has also been tried before and we have yet to see any results. Incidentally, since you accept that not all Republicans oppose stem cell research, I submit that my earlier point regarding cutting out the fundies and dealing with the neocons and moderates still stands as a viable possibility, particularly if a sufficient number of Republicans will support this alternative who would not have supported the "regular" stem cells being used.
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Post by Battlehymn Republic »

Precisely. If there are never compromises made, there will just be the same amount of squabbling ad nauseum, with South Korea completely overtaking us in the research.

And again, has pro-stem cell activists inflated claims of the miracles the research will bring? I keep on hearing that adult stem cells haven't been looked into with equal vigor.
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Post by NapoleonGH »

That is because adult stem cells arent nearly as good as fetal ones. IIRC
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Post by Lord of the Abyss »

And again, has pro-stem cell activists inflated claims of the miracles the research will bring? I keep on hearing that adult stem cells haven't been looked into with equal vigor.
If the research isn't done, of course they can't prove their claims. That's part of the point of research in the first place. And by nature, adult stem cells have less potential and a greater chance for nasty surprises - look at all the problems with clones.
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Post by The Dark »

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Precisely. If there are never compromises made, there will just be the same amount of squabbling ad nauseum, with South Korea completely overtaking us in the research.

And again, has pro-stem cell activists inflated claims of the miracles the research will bring? I keep on hearing that adult stem cells haven't been looked into with equal vigor.
Adult stem cells are limited because they cannot alter to other types of cells. A blood stem cell can only be used for blood problems. Embryonic stem cells can become virtually any type of cell within the body (there are a few they haven't gotten to appear yet, IIRC), which is why I favor the use of excess IVF embryos for stem cell research.
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