Does anyone actually think the Empire could loose

[Flagg]

The reason you are not banned at SCN is because you are a member of their growing trekkie army. The Sendells know you're up to something and we won't stand for it. You had better show some more respect to warsies or you and your board will be destroyed by a glorious crusade of the wars fans. We will destroy your pathetic rebellion and avenge Yavin and Endor.

Did your mother step on your neck after she dropped you on your head, or are you mentally retarded from birth? Do you even live in the real fucking world? The only person here who seems to be interested in starting any shit anywhere is your stupid ass. And I have to wonder what kind of fucking damage you have to be playing these retarded games of yours for the 2 and a half years you've been playing them.

[Vympel]

This bullshit about matters on another board ends now. Furthemore, Gordonfrost's obvious idiocy has been HoSd.

[Flagg]

Yeah, sorry to bring this shit up, I just got sick of him running around spreading his bullshit. I won't bring it up again.

[Xon]

Personally I don't see how anyone could argue for Federation "victory" even if we didn't even begin to discuss firepower. You'd have to be a moron to think that a power with 1,000,000 star systems and the ability to construct moon sized armored battlestations could ever lose a military conflict with a puny 150-world federation.

The Time Lords had at most, ten planets.

I was only really aware of Gallifrey, that are the other planets?

Not that the Time Lords are what you would call "small change" as far as vs debates go.

[Mange]

Bernd Schneider is involved in the vs debate?

No. But he has an opinion on it, which he elucidated to me via E-mail several years ago. I remember that one of his linchpin claims was that any "field-based" technology must have perfect accuracy by definition, hence it's impossible for phasers to miss. His other dumb-shit argument was to say that Imperial starships are less realistic than Federation starships because they have a "big fireplace" at the back which makes them go, while Federation starships have more realistic warp nacelles. Where he got the fucktarded idea that warp nacelles were "realistic" is a mystery, because when challenged, he never explained it. He only repeated it a couple of times and then changed the subject to "you are a mean, mean, very bad person".

That wasn't something I expected from Mr. Schneider. IMO Ex-Astris-Scientia is one of the better ST sites out there on the 'Net, and my impression of EAS was that Bernd Schneider really didn't care about the vs. debate (from what little he says about it, but he does link to Darkstar's site). Well, such ignorant and unfounded arguments can of course only have the effect that you're being twice as critical when reading his articles.

[NecronLord]

I was only really aware of Gallifrey, that are the other planets?

Offhand, Shada, the prison planet of the Time Lords, which is more of a sculpted asteroid than a planet, Gryben, 'a reception center for temporal refugees' - in other words, where the Time Lords send those experimenting with time travel whom they don't trust with it. Additionally, in the books, numerous copies of Gallifrey were constructed to deceive opponents.


Shada. The prison for the worst criminals the Time Lords ever apprehended.

[TrekWarsie]

I do not believe, even if Star Trek and Star Wars ships were equal one on one that the Federation alone could come close to defeating the Galactic Empire. With prep time, they could trick an Imperial fleet or two into going into a supernova if they have a Tri-lithium torpedo, but other than that, they'd only win the first couple limited engagements or so. Once that is done, the Empire would bring in thousands of ships to even the smaller battles, and they would overwhelm the Federation through superior numbers. Assuming close to even ship to ship battles in firepower and shields, I believe that it would take the enitre FKR Alliance and the Dominion to pose a threat to the Empire. Even then they may only be able to win in a defensive war.

[Darth Wong]

Most pro-Trek arguments are tantamount to arguing that a medieval army could defeat the modern US Army because a Welsh longbowman could put an arrow through a modern bulletproof vest. And then they'll produce all kinds of detailed evidence to show that the Welsh longbowman could indeed do that.

The rest are Q-wanking or one-episode wonder wanking, which is really just a concession that without such interference (which would never happen anyway and which is without precedent in prior Trek wars), Trek would get its ass handed to it.

[Augustus Caesar]

As I'm not too well versed in the Star Trek vs. Star Wars debate, is it referring to all species in Star Trek against the Empire or just the Federation against the Empire?

Either way, it would seem that the Empire could easily flatten most resistance because of numerical superiority, the Death Star, and its reluctance to try diplomacy instead of military action. However, although I don't doubt the Empire could lose, wouldn't it be possible for the Federation/Romulans/Klingons to adopt a scorched earth strategy to make territory the Empire would want unattractive and not worth the effort?

[Noble Ire]

As I'm not too well versed in the Star Trek vs. Star Wars debate, is it referring to all species in Star Trek against the Empire or just the Federation against the Empire?

Either way, it would seem that the Empire could easily flatten most resistance because of numerical superiority, the Death Star, and its reluctance to try diplomacy instead of military action. However, although I don't doubt the Empire could lose, wouldn't it be possible for the Federation/Romulans/Klingons to adopt a scorched earth strategy to make territory the Empire would want unattractive and not worth the effort?

Generally, the scenario is Empire versus Federation, although Trekkies will generally say that if the Empire, every species and faction in the galaxy will rush to their help (including the Dominion, the Borg, Species 8472, and even Q.) This is just not the case.

Without godlike intervention, it is generally accepted that the Empire, focusing its entire attention on the Milky Way, could conquer it completely, although they would most likely take it one civilization a time, everyone togther could prove challenging, if by pure weight of numbers alone.

[Noble Ire]

Oops, Edit: if the Empire attacked the Federation.

[Duckie]

Without godlike intervention, it is generally accepted that the Empire, focusing its entire attention on the Milky Way, could conquer it completely, although they would most likely take it one civilization a time, everyone togther could prove challenging, if by pure weight of numbers alone.

Really? The fact that a Lancer or Strike Frigate can take on Starfleet in its entirety makes that fact seem rather odd. What high-powered races beyond the God-Like ones exist that could attrit the Empire beyond making them use more ammo to turn them into smouldering corpses?

[Darth Wong]

As I'm not too well versed in the Star Trek vs. Star Wars debate, is it referring to all species in Star Trek against the Empire or just the Federation against the Empire?

Either way, it would seem that the Empire could easily flatten most resistance because of numerical superiority, the Death Star, and its reluctance to try diplomacy instead of military action. However, although I don't doubt the Empire could lose, wouldn't it be possible for the Federation/Romulans/Klingons to adopt a scorched earth strategy to make territory the Empire would want unattractive and not worth the effort?

The Russian scorched-earth strategy wouldn't have worked that well if the Nazis were capable of moving their entire army to the doorstep of Moscow in 30 minutes, with no possibility of interception and a secure supply line of similar speed.

[Phyre]

As I'm not too well versed in the Star Trek vs. Star Wars debate, is it referring to all species in Star Trek against the Empire or just the Federation against the Empire?

Either way, it would seem that the Empire could easily flatten most resistance because of numerical superiority, the Death Star, and its reluctance to try diplomacy instead of military action. However, although I don't doubt the Empire could lose, wouldn't it be possible for the Federation/Romulans/Klingons to adopt a scorched earth strategy to make territory the Empire would want unattractive and not worth the effort?

The Russian scorched-earth strategy wouldn't have worked that well if the Nazis were capable of moving their entire army to the doorstep of Moscow in 30 minutes, with no possibility of interception and a secure supply line of similar speed.

And the only thing that saved the Ruskies was the Russian winter and holding the Germans at Stalingrad.

[Noble Ire]

Without godlike intervention, it is generally accepted that the Empire, focusing its entire attention on the Milky Way, could conquer it completely, although they would most likely take it one civilization a time, everyone togther could prove challenging, if by pure weight of numbers alone.

Really? The fact that a Lancer or Strike Frigate can take on Starfleet in its entirety makes that fact seem rather odd. What high-powered races beyond the God-Like ones exist that could attrit the Empire beyond making them use more ammo to turn them into smouldering corpses?

True. Perhaps I should rephrase, It would take the Empire longer to wipe them all out.

[Quadlok]

There are those who will just kneejerk 'Trek owns all.' For evidence see here. Many people are simply unable or unwilling to look at things in a rational fashion.

[Noble Ire]

Also the photon torps. can also disable the deathstar with about 1 spread of 5. this is a huge advantage for Trek.

Good lord. His mental capablities are more under-developed than his ability to punctuate.

[Firefox]

They sound like a bunch of pre-pubescent twerps. I wouldn't waste time in vs. debates with them.

[Lord Pounder]

Yeah, i was actually waiting for one ot them to call you a mean poo poo head, HOW DARE YOUR RUIN MY DEBATE BY BRINGING IN FACTS!

[Kurgan]

I definately think the Empire could become loose, if they extended themselves too far.

Oh, you meant to say "lose," nevermind.

[QuantumLobsters]

After browsing the Star Trek forum at Gamefaqs.com, some Trekkers seem to think that the Federation from the 29th century would come to their rescue in Time Ships. Their logic seems to be that if the Federation lasts until the 29th century, then they obviously won any possible war with the Empire by default. And of course, they think that the Federation of the 29th century has impossibly superior technology to the Empire, ya know, simply because they time travel and have an extra 500 years of technological development (which obviously is better than thousands of years of technological advancement right?).

[DrkHelmet]

The feds would obviously get curbstomped, but if they gave up their principles and waged a guerilla war on the Empire, they could make occupation very expensive.

[Batman]

The feds would obviously get curbstomped, but if they gave up their principles and waged a guerilla war on the Empire, they could make occupation very expensive.

How? Unlike most modern governments, the Empire doesn't give a shit about slaughtering civilians wholesale. The population gets 72 hours to deliver the guerillas or they get wiped out.

[DrkHelmet]

The feds would obviously get curbstomped, but if they gave up their principles and waged a guerilla war on the Empire, they could make occupation very expensive.

How? Unlike most modern governments, the Empire doesn't give a shit about slaughtering civilians wholesale. The population gets 72 hours to deliver the guerillas or they get wiped out.

Good point. Obviously outposts could not be put on highly populated planets. I will gladly admit that. They would have to do basically the same thing that the rebel alliance does, except their weapons & shields aren't near as powerful, but they are more accurate.

But again, this wouldn't happen, as the Feds seem to never, as a group, simply abandon their principles to win a war (or fight one, as they couldn't win).

[Batman]

Good point. Obviously outposts could not be put on highly populated planets. I will gladly admit that. They would have to do basically the same thing that the rebel alliance does, except their weapons & shields aren't near as powerful, but they are more accurate.

How in Valen's name are they more accurate?