Does anyone actually think the Empire could loose

[The Spartan]

They would have to do basically the same thing that the rebel alliance does, except their weapons & shields aren't near as powerful, but they are more accurate.

Try several orders of magnitude to low to do anything at all. They won't be able to even make the shields blink before they're one-shot-killed by the Imperials. And then the planet they're protecting is BDZ'd.

[DrkHelmet]

How in Valen's name are they more accurate?

I would think that would be self evident.

For instance:

"We count 30 rebel ships Lord Vader, but they're so small they're avoiding our turbolasers." (or something to that effect, haven't seen the old series in quite some time)

However, in Star Trek, the only time I ever see them miss is when the firing ship is cloaked (Nemesis), and they were firing blind. They can even hit shuttles with amazing accuracy.

However, given the Empire ship turrets fire 10 or 12 times a second, with a much higher yield, only one, maybe two of them have to hit to really score. Star Trek ships don't fire nearly as quickly or potently, so they have to be accurate.

[The Spartan]

"We count 30 rebel ships Lord Vader, but they're so small they're avoiding our turbolasers." (or something to that effect, haven't seen the old series in quite some time)

Wait, your proof of inaccuracy in Star Wars is that capital class weapons had difficulty tracking star fighters?

[Firefox]

"We count 30 rebel ships Lord Vader, but they're so small they're avoiding our turbolasers." (or something to that effect, haven't seen the old series in quite some time)

Those were snubfighters evading capital-grade guns. This would be like arguing that a battleship's 16" guns are inaccurate because they can't hit an F/A-18.

However, in Star Trek, the only time I ever see them miss is when the firing ship is cloaked (Nemesis), and they were firing blind. They can even hit shuttles with amazing accuracy.

And shuttles are as maneuverable as drunken pregnant whales....

However, given the Empire ship turrets fire 10 or 12 times a second, with a much higher yield, only one, maybe two of them have to hit to really score. Star Trek ships don't fire nearly as quickly or potently, so they have to be accurate.

Again, capital ship-level guns against starfighters is a poor comparison.

[DrkHelmet]

"We count 30 rebel ships Lord Vader, but they're so small they're avoiding our turbolasers." (or something to that effect, haven't seen the old series in quite some time)

Wait, your proof of inaccuracy in Star Wars is that capital class weapons had difficulty tracking star fighters?

No, my proof is that they chronically miss alot. The fighters don't miss very much of course (except when facing other fighters), but that may have more to do with fighters having hull-hugging shields instead of these huge bubble shields that make big targets.

However, you can note that when pursuing Leia's ship and when pursuing the Millenium Falcon, they had a great deal more misses than hits. These were not 1 man aircraft like the X-Wing, these were larger cargo carrying ships, and they still could not hit it every time.

Star Trek doesn't have many fighter type craft that they have to shoot, although I can never recall seeing them miss even a shuttlecraft (except Voyager, but that was because 7 of 9 messed up the targeting computer. Damn computers.). For some stupid reason everybody likes big capital ships.

I therefore declare Star Trek's weapons weak as hell, but very accurate (compared to Star Wars).

[Batman]

How in Valen's name are they more accurate?

I would think that would be self evident.

Then you're delusional.

For instance:
"We count 30 rebel ships Lord Vader, but they're so small they're avoiding our turbolasers." (or something to that effect, haven't seen the old series in quite some time)

Ah, yes. The Wars equivalent of an Iowa trying to hit Zeros with her main guns. Yes, very convincing point.

However, in Star Trek, the only time I ever see them miss is when the firing ship is cloaked (Nemesis), and they were firing blind.

Someone definitly hasn't seen Wayne's 'trekmiss' video.Alas, his site seems to be down. Anybody have an alternate link for it?

They can even hit shuttles with amazing accuracy.

As they're usually moving at highway car speeds at distances considered point-blank for modern day weaponry you'll excuse me if I'm unimpressed.

[Firefox]

No, my proof is that they chronically miss alot.

Examples of missing "alot" please.

However, you can note that when pursuing Leia's ship and when pursuing the Millenium Falcon, they had a great deal more misses than hits. These were not 1 man aircraft like the X-Wing, these were larger cargo carrying ships, and they still could not hit it every time.

And they were trying to bracket the target, not destroy it.

I therefore declare Star Trek's weapons weak as hell, but very accurate (compared to Star Wars).

A poor declaration in lieu of overwhelming evidence.

[Batman]

If Trek weapons are so incredibly accurate why pray to do they close to spitting distance before opening fire virtually every time?
Besides, in TWOK, both ENT and Reliant repeatedly missed one another, at spitting distances no less. And before you bring up the Nebula, you could see through it just fine. You were saying?

[DrkHelmet]

Someone definitly hasn't seen Wayne's 'trekmiss' video.Alas, his site seems to be down. Anybody have an alternate link for it?

If you get it, I would be excited to see it.

They can even hit shuttles with amazing accuracy.

As they're usually moving at highway car speeds at distances considered point-blank for modern day weaponry you'll excuse me if I'm unimpressed.

And shuttles are as maneuverable as drunken pregnant whales....

I loled. It's so true. My point was is that they can hit small targets though, when Star Wars has bigger targets flying approximately straight and miss half the time. (not questioning firepower here, star trek would still get owned just by the NUMBER of shots an imperial ship could pull off and how much higher yield they are)

[DrkHelmet]

If Trek weapons are so incredibly accurate why pray to do they close to spitting distance before opening fire virtually every time?
Besides, in TWOK, both ENT and Reliant repeatedly missed one another, at spitting distances no less. And before you bring up the Nebula, you could see through it just fine. You were saying?

What does TWOK stand for? I'm drawing a blank. (I don't watch a whole lot of star trek, mostly just the movies and a couple of series that make me laugh.)

[Batman]

What does TWOK stand for? I'm drawing a blank. (I don't watch a whole lot of star trek, mostly just the movies and a couple of series that make me laugh.)

That would be 'The Wrath Of Khan'.
Though the combined terms 'Reliant' and 'nebula' should have been a dead giveaway.

[DrkHelmet]

What does TWOK stand for? I'm drawing a blank. (I don't watch a whole lot of star trek, mostly just the movies and a couple of series that make me laugh.)

That would be 'The Wrath Of Khan'.
Though the combined terms 'Reliant' and 'nebula' should have been a dead giveaway.

Ah ok, I like Star Wars alot better so I'm more likely to recognize those acronyms than Star Trek. (I also don't remember seeing the wrath of khan, though I probably did a long time ago. I'll have to rent that or something and get back to you.)

[Firefox]

As they're usually moving at highway car speeds at distances considered point-blank for modern day weaponry you'll excuse me if I'm unimpressed.

... Excuse me? "Car" speeds? Have we watched the same movie?

I loled. It's so true. My point was is that they can hit small targets though, when Star Wars has bigger targets flying approximately straight and miss half the time. (not questioning firepower here, star trek would still get owned just by the NUMBER of shots an imperial ship could pull off and how much higher yield they are)

Did you miss where I said they were trying to bracket the target, not destroy it?

[Batman]

As they're usually moving at highway car speeds at distances considered point-blank for modern day weaponry you'll excuse me if I'm unimpressed.

... Excuse me? "Car" speeds? Have we watched the same movie?

That was my quote, thank you very much. Don't blame DrkHelmet for something he never actually posted. And when pray tell have we seen shuttles move faster than 200kph or so relative?

[DrkHelmet]

... Excuse me? "Car" speeds? Have we watched the same movie?

That was Batman that said that, not me. Scroll up.

Did you miss where I said they were trying to bracket the target, not destroy it?

No, I saw that. However, exactly what is "bracketing" a target in laser fire supposed to do? They didn't stop until their main reactor got hit. I'd say they were trying to disable the ship without destroying it, yeah, but a few accurate shots to key places are more suited to that goal than a bunch of wild shots all over the place.

[Firefox]

My mistake. I thought it was his statement referring to SW craft.

[DrkHelmet]

Never mind, C-3PO said they shut down the main reactor, not that it got hit. I just remembered. So I withdraw the bracketing debate.

[Batman]

No, I saw that. However, exactly what is "bracketing" a target in laser fire supposed to do? They didn't stop until their main reactor got hit. I'd say they were trying to disable the ship without destroying it, yeah, but a few accurate shots to key places are more suited to that goal than a bunch of wild shots all over the place.

Those 'wild shots' serve to keep the target in a position where you actually can disable them with a few shots to key places, have you ever thought about that?

[Firefox]

No, I saw that. However, exactly what is "bracketing" a target in laser fire supposed to do? They didn't stop until their main reactor got hit. I'd say they were trying to disable the ship without destroying it, yeah, but a few accurate shots to key places are more suited to that goal than a bunch of wild shots all over the place.

To keep a ship from escaping laterally while heavy ECM prohibits an easy shot.

[DrkHelmet]

Ok, given that premise in both occasions, and having never read the EU, I will have to withdraw my accuracy claim and put forth that the federation is as accurate as the Empire's ships. They still can't hit for squat though.

[Batman]

Ok, given that premise in both occasions, and having never read the EU, I will have to withdraw my accuracy claim and put forth that the federation is as accurate as the Empire's ships. They still can't hit for squat though.

And that 'they still can't hit for squat' part of your so-called withdrawal is based on?

[DrkHelmet]

And that 'they still can't hit for squat' part of your so-called withdrawal is based on?

That the yield on Fed weapons is so weak they couldn't scratch an ISD? Seriously, Fed weapons have such low yield...

[Batman]

And that 'they still can't hit for squat' part of your so-called withdrawal is based on?

That the yield on Fed weapons is so weak they couldn't scratch an ISD? Seriously, Fed weapons have such low yield...

Sorry. That sounded like an accuracy comment as opposed to a firepower one, and one directed against Wars at that. My apologies.