Major incident occuring on the London Underground.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2005-07-08 06:25pm

This stuff the US did, with raising the British flag at the State Department and an army band playing "God Save the Queen" at the embassy reminds me of this thing a German warship did days after 9/11. As the story goes, a USN ship (I think a destroyer or cruiser) was leaving port somewhere in England to head off to Afghanistan. As they were leaving, a German warship asked permission to pass close by the ship or some such. Anyways, they were given permission and when they did, they had the US flag flying with theirs, all hands on deck and a banner that said "We stand with you".

And that, my friends, is the ultimate flaw that will doom terrorism. It unites, not divides, nations and peoples.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2005-07-08 06:52pm

Jason von Evil wrote:This stuff the US did, with raising the British flag at the State Department and an army band playing "God Save the Queen" at the embassy reminds me of this thing a German warship did days after 9/11. As the story goes, a USN ship (I think a destroyer or cruiser) was leaving port somewhere in England to head off to Afghanistan. As they were leaving, a German warship asked permission to pass close by the ship or some such. Anyways, they were given permission and when they did, they had the US flag flying with theirs, all hands on deck and a banner that said "We stand with you".

And that, my friends, is the ultimate flaw that will doom terrorism. It unites, not divides, nations and peoples.

Here's the story on the ship after 9/11. It was the USS Winston Churchill and the German FGS Lutjens (built in Maine!).

More on the Lutgens.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2005-07-08 06:54pm

Sorry, forgot to mention that Lutjens is indeed a destroyer.

Johnny Ipcress · Post by **Johnny Ipcress** » 2005-07-08 08:03pm

weemadando wrote:I still think that this is a wonderful example of "dumbfuck terrorism".

And now, a brief guide to "dumbfuck terrorism".

Step 1 - Choose a country which has been having tumultuous political rivalries and heated clashes in parliament and the media over any number of "War on Terror"-related issues and has every chance of pulling yet more of its forces out of the Middle East.

Let's not go mad. Tumultuous political rivalries is a little extreme. As is heated clashes. Both main parties support the War on Terror and have no designs to withdraw forces from the Middle East yet. Furthermore, I'm not even sure the UK has pulled any forces out of the region, other than due to routine.

Step 2 - Wait until all of the worlds media is already focused on that nation and everyone with the capacity to reduce your country of origin to a nice glass carpark and then occupy it from now until eternity is gathered in aforementioned nation.

The people who committed the bombings are most likely British nationals. Also, isn't this a good thing for a terrorist? Media exposure is bread and butter, in a manner of speaking.

Step 3 - Blow something up, not enough to do any *real* damage or break morale, more like the weedy guy in the shower-room flicking the 7'6" monster on the arse with a wet towel instead of shooting him in the head with .50cal. Crushing despair, not righteous retribution is what you want to elicit.

I, for one, am surprised there were not more deaths. Bombs in the Tube during rush hour? I expected hundreds dead when I first heard.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2005-07-08 08:22pm

A very sad after effect of the bombings - the people missing from the bombings. MSNBC did a report about it. This guy was going from hospital to hospital, looking for his sister and had already been to a number of them (he had a list).

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2005-07-08 09:04pm

Jason von Evil wrote:A very sad after effect of the bombings - the people missing from the bombings. MSNBC did a report about it. This guy was going from hospital to hospital, looking for his sister and had already been to a number of them (he had a list).

Sounds familiar, I'm afraid.

Although one happy moment they showed on a TV report tonight was when a young woman who was looking for a close friend finally found her in a hospital. Badly wounded, but alive.

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-07-08 10:31pm

Chmee wrote:/sigh

Remember when England could proudly say their cops didn't need to carry firearms?

No more

And? Armed police have been in Britain since time immemorial. Its PC Plod who doesn't carry a weapon. There are large numbers of "Armed Response" units within the major cities (not SWAT teams, just cars with guys with pistols and MP5s who cruise around waiting for trouble to start - SO19 and other such groups cover the SWAT team angle) and from what I understand a large number of police are weapons qualified so when the shit DOES hit the fan, they are able to be given weapons.

Post by **Coyote** » 2005-07-08 10:45pm

The question we're all asking out at the Reserve base I work at is if the British will cash out and leave the table, a la Spain. We don't see that happening but one never knows.

I heard a radio interview with some fellow over there who said that the deaths in Fallujah are the same as the deaths in New York and London, and there should be a Middle East peace conference. While the idea is actually a good one, and can't hurt, it's not very realistic considering there is really no one to negotiate with, and the most likely "starting point" from their team to begin with is "first item: you must all convert to Islam."

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-07-09 12:06am

I really want to smack those asswipe jingoists everytime they slam all members of a certain religion. Folks like Shadow, and Ali-Sama are pissed off about this shit guys. Meanwhile my mom's a former SDS member, and I sorta teased Ali because he's a persian, I'm the son of a former member of the political arm of a terrorist organization, and we can look just like everyone else enough we don't even get a second look....

Oh and my step-brother Alex.. poor, poor geneticist half Indian/Hispanic and they searched HIM when he goes to fly...

Post by **Coyote** » 2005-07-09 02:48am

Turns out one of my friends was over there: a Professor from my college here is on Sabbatical and spending his time in the UK. He missed his subway by ten minutes and took another; he would have passed by one of the stations that blew up. As it turned out his train was the last one that ran for the rest of the day. He was on his way to the airport to leave... crazy timing.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2005-07-09 05:10am

A little something I cooked up. I think it says it nicely.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2005-07-09 05:24am

Like all countires, the G8's rage will be temporary.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-07-09 05:45am

Chmee wrote:/sigh

Remember when England could proudly say their cops didn't need to carry firearms?

No more

Yeah I heard there was some monumentally idiotic decision made in england with regards to handicapping the police, well atleast they are getting guns back now, hopefully gun laws will become more laxed as well, and some real self defence laws would be nice too.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2005-07-09 05:56am

Jason von Evil wrote:And that, my friends, is the ultimate flaw that will doom terrorism. It unites, not divides, nations and peoples.

Osama really is a way better uniter then Shrub.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2005-07-09 06:21am

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Chmee wrote:/sigh

Remember when England could proudly say their cops didn't need to carry firearms?

No more
Yeah I heard there was some monumentally idiotic decision made in england with regards to handicapping the police, well atleast they are getting guns back now, hopefully gun laws will become more laxed as well, and some real self defence laws would be nice too.

We've had specialist armed police units for ages like the ones in the photo, how to you figure that this handicaps the police anyway? Arming them certainly wouldn't have made any difference to how last Thursday played out.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-07-09 06:58am

That doesn't have anything todo with this incident so stop making stuff up.

And how, self explanatory, cops with less resources and less intimidation factor, no suprise all the chav scum are so prevalent in the UK.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2005-07-09 07:01am

His Divine Shadow wrote:That doesn't have anything todo with this incident so stop making stuff up.

And how, self explanatory, cops with less resources and less intimidation factor, no suprise all the chav scum are so prevalent in the UK.

The fact that 78% of police officers do not want to carry guns source would suggest that you are wrong in your assertion that being unarmed handicaps them.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-07-09 07:09am

What is does is explain alot of things. I can't see cops like that getting any respect, they're trying to be buddies instead of authority figures.
Oh yeah thats real impressive when facing a criminal "Halt! Or'll say halt again!"

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2005-07-09 07:23am

His Divine Shadow wrote:What is does is explain alot of things. I can't see cops like that getting any respect, they're trying to be buddies instead of authority figures.

Yeah god forbid that the police should actually try to have good relations with the public they’re protecting, clearly we’d be much better off in a situation where I feared the police rather than seeing them as approachable public servants employed by me (the taxpayer) for mine and societies benefit on a consensual basis.

They have batons, pepper sprays, rigid handcuffs and increasingly tasers which it would seem the vast majority of serving Police officers here deem adequate for their jobs. Why do you think that you know so much better than them what tools they need and what kind of relationship they should have with the public?

Oh yeah thats real impressive when facing a criminal "Halt! Or'll say halt again!"

And your alternative "halt or I’ll shoot you in the back" is better why exactly?

Glimmervoid · Post by **Glimmervoid** » 2005-07-09 07:29am

His Divine Shadow wrote:What is does is explain alot of things. I can't see cops like that getting any respect, they're trying to be buddies instead of authority figures.
Oh yeah thats real impressive when facing a criminal "Halt! Or'll say halt again!"

No it's more like halt or I will come after you and you will be surrounded by other police men with in a few seconds because this radios on.

You only need to arm ever police man when the general population is armed. In Briton (than goodness) it is not. There for there is no need to have ever cops carry a gun.

Just because US police think pointing a gun at some one is a good way to police people dose not mean everyone dose.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-07-09 07:40am

Plekhanov wrote:Yeah god forbid that the police should actually try to have good relations with the public they’re protecting, clearly we’d be much better off in a situation where I feared the police rather than seeing them as approachable public servants employed by me (the taxpayer) for mine and societies benefit on a consensual basis.

They are an authority figure and you should rightly have respect and fear for them. Criminal elements clearly don't.

They have batons, pepper sprays, rigid handcuffs and increasingly tasers which it would seem the vast majority of serving Police officers here deem adequate for their jobs. Why do you think that you know so much better than them what tools they need and what kind of relationship they should have with the public?

I'll let the situation speak for itself.

And your alternative "halt or I’ll shoot you in the back" is better why exactly?

More like in the leg, or they wouldn't do it in the first place because they'd rightly have fear of pissing off the cops.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-07-09 07:42am

Glimmervoid wrote:
Just because US police think pointing a gun at some one is a good way to police people dose not mean everyone dose.

Considering a police officer in the US will (should) only point his gun at you if you're involved in a felony, or suspected of being dangerous I'd say your comment is completely retarded.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-07-09 07:43am

Glimmervoid wrote:No it's more like halt or I will come after you and you will be surrounded by other police men with in a few seconds because this radios on.

Yeah that works really well.

Glimmervoid wrote:You only need to arm ever police man when the general population is armed. In Briton (than goodness) it is not. There for there is no need to have ever cops carry a gun.

Just because US police think pointing a gun at some one is a good way to police people dose not mean everyone dose.

Oh you have enough gun crimes, stripping the populace of their guns is just a fascist method of doing, well nothing since now only the criminals have guns and thereby creating a large black market which is impossible to stop.
Unlike in Finland where you can pretty much get everything but fully automatic assault rifles and the gun ownership ratio per capita is 10x that of the US and we have well practically no gun crime whatsoever.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-07-09 07:54am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Glimmervoid wrote:Just because US police think pointing a gun at some one is a good way to police people dose not mean everyone dose.
Considering a police officer in the US will (should) only point his gun at you if you're involved in a felony, or suspected of being dangerous I'd say your comment is completely retarded.

Yeah. Over here, pretty much every police office I've seen has a pistol, I've never seen one have to pull it though. And if there was acase where cops and criminals where shooting, well thats usually big enough news to make the front page of the paper.

This is not about shooting people, this is about giving an image, I think its clear a major problem in the UK is lack of respect by many criminals, I am not sure just carrying pistols will reverse the trend either. It's a side-effect I guess of taking away so many rights and liberties in a society.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-07-09 07:59am

Plekhanov wrote: And your alternative "halt or I’ll shoot you in the back" is better why exactly?

It's more of a bluff actually. You can say "halt or I'll shoot" but if they call your bluff then there's nothing you can do.

Unless the police officer has probable cause to believe that you would be a danger to the public if you got away. (IE - Hannibal Lecter, is a good fictional example...or Jeffrey Dalmer if you want real)

Even then you'd have to give a VERY good reason why you fired.