Steel Cage match: Worf vs. Chewbacca

[MindTwist]

I think Worf deserves more credit then he is being given here. He is stronger than a normal man. It has been shown that he has strength comparable to Data. And let's assumme his fighting style just looks shitty for the camera and is really as good as implied by the dialog. And I think Chewie is being given more skill then he deserves. For instance, I think that whole rip his arms off thing was just a joke. Han was messing with Threepio. That's the way the scene looks to me in the movie and that's what the EU says. Also, I've always had the impression that Chewie is not really that smart. He's only a little bit smarter than Jar Jar. They are both comic relief sidekicks.

I think Worf would have a fighting chance but would still end up losing in the end. Without any weapons, Chewbacca's natural size and defenses would overcome.

What if they each had a batliff? That would give Worf a chance since that is his weapon. Being raised among humans, he made a point of becoming the best warrior possible since he knew other Klingons would challenge him every chance they got. And Chewbacca wouldn't know what to do with it. He could use it like a bat or a sword, but Worf would be able to handle that. In a battle where Worf has any sort of weapon, even a small dagger, I think he would win.

[Vicious]

I think Worf deserves more credit then he is being given here. He is stronger than a normal man. It has been shown that he has strength comparable to Data. And let's assumme his fighting style just looks shitty for the camera and is really as good as implied by the dialog. And I think Chewie is being given more skill then he deserves. For instance, I think that whole rip his arms off thing was just a joke. Han was messing with Threepio. That's the way the scene looks to me in the movie and that's what the EU says. Also, I've always had the impression that Chewie is not really that smart. He's only a little bit smarter than Jar Jar. They are both comic relief sidekicks.

I think Worf would have a fighting chance but would still end up losing in the end. Without any weapons, Chewbacca's natural size and defenses would overcome.

What if they each had a batliff? That would give Worf a chance since that is his weapon. Being raised among humans, he made a point of becoming the best warrior possible since he knew other Klingons would challenge him every chance they got. And Chewbacca wouldn't know what to do with it. He could use it like a bat or a sword, but Worf would be able to handle that. In a battle where Worf has any sort of weapon, even a small dagger, I think he would win.

First, a Klingon's strength isn't near Data's. This is shown in the episode when Worf's brother comes aboard (Sorry, I can't recall the name of it). Second, it's a Ba't'leth (Folks can smack me if I misspelled it) and third, Chewie is not comic relief, if you've read any of the EU. He is most certainly not stupid.

Also, Chewie is plenty knowledgeble about bladed weapons. The Wookies wield giant machetes when trailblazing and sometimes in battle, IIRC, which are a hell of a lot easier to wield than a fucking fanblade.

[Lone_Prodigy]

I think Worf deserves more credit then he is being given here. He is stronger than a normal man. It has been shown that he has strength comparable to Data. And let's assumme his fighting style just looks shitty for the camera and is really as good as implied by the dialog. And I think Chewie is being given more skill then he deserves. For instance, I think that whole rip his arms off thing was just a joke. Han was messing with Threepio. That's the way the scene looks to me in the movie and that's what the EU says. Also, I've always had the impression that Chewie is not really that smart. He's only a little bit smarter than Jar Jar. They are both comic relief sidekicks.

I think Worf would have a fighting chance but would still end up losing in the end. Without any weapons, Chewbacca's natural size and defenses would overcome.

What if they each had a batliff? That would give Worf a chance since that is his weapon. Being raised among humans, he made a point of becoming the best warrior possible since he knew other Klingons would challenge him every chance they got. And Chewbacca wouldn't know what to do with it. He could use it like a bat or a sword, but Worf would be able to handle that. In a battle where Worf has any sort of weapon, even a small dagger, I think he would win.

Are you insane? Chewbacca was able to kill an officer with one swipe and send his corpse flying ten feet. You think that something with the strength of a bear and able to use it is comic relief? Did you ever see Jar Jar kill somebody with a backhand? FYI, Chewie is actually quite skilled at Wookie martial arts, which are based around the expedient remove of the opponent's limbs (which Chewie can do– in The Courtship of Princess Leia, he plucked a Nightsister's arm out of her socket with ease). Worf is screwed, dagger or not.

[Darth Servo]

Also, I've always had the impression that Chewie is not really that smart. He's only a little bit smarter than Jar Jar. They are both comic relief sidekicks.

How DARE you compare Chewie to Jar-jar. HEATHEN HERETIC The infidel must pay.

side note: I don't recall Jar-jar ever flying spaceships or re-assembling droids.

[MindTwist]

Also, I've always had the impression that Chewie is not really that smart. He's only a little bit smarter than Jar Jar. They are both comic relief sidekicks.

How DARE you compare Chewie to Jar-jar. HEATHEN HERETIC The infidel must pay.

side note: I don't recall Jar-jar ever flying spaceships or re-assembling droids.

OK, I admit that may have been going too far comparing him to Jar-jar. Maybe I should have said not much smarter than a gungan. I think Jar-jar is pretty stupid, even by gungan standards. I don't know anything about the EU stuff referred to in response to my post. I'm just going by the movie, where he seems to be not much smarter than a bear. He does have technical knowledge, but his fighting knowledge in the movie seems to be limited to using his size and appearance to scare people away. His animal instincts led them into an Ewok trap, after all. That didn't seem too smart.

But hey, I was just standing up for Worf a little bit. When I say the Wookie species may not be that advanced, I just meant that Worf might be a little smarter and be able to use that to his advantage. Most likely, Chewbacca would still win pretty easily.

[SirNitram]

Chewbacca, not intelligent? Based on what? He's a damn good mechanic on top of everything else, what do you base this off of?

[Lord Revan]

Have agree with Nitram, were the fuck did get that Chewie us stupid? when in fact tend suggest just the opposite, for example Chewie is with Tarfful and Yoda in ROTS yet he's small and almost frail (for a Wookiee) and Yoda doesn't need anybody to carry him around Kashyyyk before Order 66, so that can't be reason. Also one of the reasons why Wookiees are made slaves is their inteligence.

[Darth Wong]

I think Worf deserves more credit then he is being given here. He is stronger than a normal man.

Prove it.

It has been shown that he has strength comparable to Data.

Bullshit.

And let's assumme his fighting style just looks shitty for the camera and is really as good as implied by the dialog.

Let's not, because that would be fucking stupid. "Hey, let's just ignore everything we see and go by posturing instead of observation!"

And I think Chewie is being given more skill then he deserves. For instance, I think that whole rip his arms off thing was just a joke.

If you made a chimp the size of Chewie, he would indeed be able to quite easily rip a man's arms off.

What if they each had a batliff? That would give Worf a chance since that is his weapon.

No it wouldn't. Chewie's enormous strength and long arms would allow him to just swing right through Worf without Worf being able to effectively parry.

Being raised among humans, he made a point of becoming the best warrior possible since he knew other Klingons would challenge him every chance they got.

Too bad he still sucks.

And Chewbacca wouldn't know what to do with it. He could use it like a bat or a sword, but Worf would be able to handle that. In a battle where Worf has any sort of weapon, even a small dagger, I think he would win.

Nobody knows what to do with it. The bat'leth is a shitty weapon.

[aerius]

And let's assumme his fighting style just looks shitty for the camera and is really as good as implied by the dialog.

Worf? Fighting skills? Any competant martial artist could kick the shit out of him. His fighting style sucks ass, he's maybe 2 steps above your bar room brawler. A skilled human fighter such as Tito Ortiz would drop Worf's ass on the floor in about 5 seconds flat with multiple broken bones & joints.

Also, I've always had the impression that Chewie is not really that smart. He's only a little bit smarter than Jar Jar. They are both comic relief sidekicks.

He can fix the hyperdrive and everything else on the Falcon among other things, he's at least as smart as the average human.

[Phyre]

... he's at least as smart as the average human.

There's no need to insult Chewie's intelligence!

[QuantumLobsters]

I've always found it annoying when the strength of a Klingon is so overstated. Klingons frequently get their asses kicked by humans and other "lesser" species in the shows and movies, yet Trekkies like to ignore that. Worf would get ripped in half, plain and simple. I think a more reasonable matchup would be Data vs Chewie.

[Phyre]

In that case... Chewie wins, reassembles Data, and round 2 starts...

[seanrobertson]

I've always found it annoying when the strength of a Klingon is so overstated. Klingons frequently get their asses kicked by humans and other "lesser" species in the shows and movies, yet Trekkies like to ignore that. Worf would get ripped in half, plain and simple.

I partly agree. Some Klingons are stronger than the average adult human male, though not necessarily all. Further, we're not talking about vastly greater strength; saying Worf, for example, is as strong as six ordinary men would indeed be an overstatement.

However, keep in mind that, when a combatant isn't many times stronger than his opponent, strength alone needn't carry a fight. I am a fairly strong guy, but if I was to go up against an average-sized but moderately skilled martial artist or boxer, the strength differential wouldn't be so great that I could just overwhelm them (nor, for that matter, would it help keep me conscious when I took a hard blow to the head!).

As such, sometimes I've seen the pendulum swing too far the other way in these discussions. That is, people will ridicule Klingons' strength because we've seen them knocked out, fail to whip up on redshirts or whatever. If they mean to poke fun at the idea that Klingons are vastly stronger than us, they're right to do so. But if they're just reacting to the claim that a few Klingons are notably stronger, that's illicit: as I said, being only 2-3 times an opponent's strength won't keep him from hitting you. And just as surely, that strength won't keep you on your feet when the lights go out.

But poor Worf against Chewie--that's a ridiculous match-up. A Wookiee's strength is great enough to overwhelm most any humanoid in Trek, and all of the regulars.

I think a more reasonable matchup would be Data vs Chewie.

It'd be somewhat better, but not much. Data comes closer on the strength count ("the strength of ten men" if his "daughter," Lal, is an indication), but look how frail he is. Riker easily twist his one of his lower arms off in "The Measure of a Man." Chewie would easily rip the whole arm out of its socket and beat Data with it!

For a reasonable chance at kicking Chewie's ass, I say get a few Gorn to jump him. Short of that? Forget it

[Bounty]

Riker easily twist his one of his lower arms off in "The Measure of a Man."

Though Riker may have pushed a "release" button somewhere. We know that Data has hatches and access ports that can be unlocked by tapping them, but are probably kept locked the rest of the time.

[Darth Servo]

Some Klingons are stronger than the average adult human male, though not necessarily all.

Of course some humans are stronger than the average adult human male too. Thats part of the definition of "average".

However, keep in mind that, when a combatant isn't many times stronger than his opponent, strength alone needn't carry a fight. I am a fairly strong guy, but if I was to go up against an average-sized but moderately skilled martial artist or boxer, the strength differential wouldn't be so great that I could just overwhelm them (nor, for that matter, would it help keep me conscious when I took a hard blow to the head!).

But all the martial arts in the world won't help someone much against a bear.

[seanrobertson]

Of course some humans are stronger than the average adult human male too. Thats part of the definition of "average".

Gosh, really?

Steady thy itchy trigger-finger for a moment and attend why I said that:

1--we have seen Klingons who are stronger than the average adult human male. If you read the thread, you'll see that's something a few other posters have challenged.

2--since I've previously participated in similar discussions and have reason to expect blatant strawmandering (e.g., "Sean said all Klingons are stronger!"), I figured I'd better qualify out the ass so as to avoid such misunderstandings. I wanted to make painfully damned clear that I am NOT suggesting the average Klingon is far stronger than his human counterpart.

However, keep in mind that, when a combatant isn't many times stronger than his opponent, strength alone needn't carry a fight. I am a fairly strong guy, but if I was to go up against an average-sized but moderately skilled martial artist or boxer, the strength differential wouldn't be so great that I could just overwhelm them (nor, for that matter, would it help keep me conscious when I took a hard blow to the head!).

But all the martial arts in the world won't help someone much against a bear.

Of course not, but had you read my post, you'd see I already said that!

Just so's there is no confusion this time:

When a combatant isn't many times stronger than his opponent, strength alone needn't carry a fight.

That's simple. A fighter who's stronger than another but not many times his opponent's strength can still be whipped by skill, agility, etc.

Now, this:

But poor Worf against Chewie--that's a ridiculous match-up. A Wookiee's strength is great enough to overwhelm most any humanoid in Trek.

Put the two together. Chewie, or a bear, IS strong enough to overwhelm most any humanoid in Trek.

That means they are EASILY "many times stronger", and the damned rule doesn't apply to them!

[seanrobertson]

Riker easily twist his one of his lower arms off in "The Measure of a Man."

Though Riker may have pushed a "release" button somewhere. We know that Data has hatches and access ports that can be unlocked by tapping them, but are probably kept locked the rest of the time.

Possibly. Probably, even, though I can't help but to wonder how well these locking joints would hold together when a Wookiee's playing tug-of-war with 'em

[Junghalli]

It'd be somewhat better, but not much. Data comes closer on the strength count ("the strength of ten men" if his "daughter," Lal, is an indication), but look how frail he is. Riker easily twist his one of his lower arms off in "The Measure of a Man." Chewie would easily rip the whole arm out of its socket and beat Data with it!

Isn't his endoskeleton supposed to be the same stuff they make warship hulls out of? That would suggest he's probably not frail.
I wouldn't be sure of that match-up. Sure Chewie's a lot bigger than Data, but let's not forget generally steel>>>flesh.

[seanrobertson]

Isn't his endoskeleton supposed to be the same stuff they make warship hulls out of? That would suggest he's probably not frail.

His bones aren't frail, but in an angry Wookiee's eyes, I bet his joints are. Even if Riker has to finger a release catch to work Data's arm loose, a Wookiee should have little trouble ripping it completely off.

I wouldn't be sure of that match-up. Sure Chewie's a lot bigger than Data, but let's not forget generally steel>>>flesh.

Absolutely. But I still have serious reservations.

*Wookiee reach. It's hard to get at Chewie when he can keep you at arms' length

*Data's weight. There's a blurb in "The Most Toys" about the mass of Data's constituent elements. I'm not sure if it was a complete list, but I remember it summed to a paltry figure.

Couple that with a Wookiee's reach and power, and it should be incredibly easy to move Data (pushing, punching, kicking, throwing--whatever).

*Data's strength. I would contend he's at least as strong as Lal, or 10 times stronger than an ordinary man.

That's certainly awesome, but how might it compare to a Wookiee? I'm inclined to say not all that well, but in truth I'm not sure. An in-depth look at Chewie's strength could be interesting. I only wish I knew how to quantify his killer back-hand slap in "lifting" terms.

*Durability of Data's "shell." So his bones are made of duranium *shrugs* That's nice, but how thick is his outer layer? Could it resist DBW--deformation by Wookiee?

In short, I suspect Data's too short, too light, not strong enough and probably not resilient enough to take on Chewie.

[Darth Wong]

Isn't his endoskeleton supposed to be the same stuff they make warship hulls out of? That would suggest he's probably not frail.

You forget that a chain is as strong as its weakest link. His bones could be made of fucking MarvelVerse adamantium for all I care; the fact is that he fits together at various joints, and the strength of those joint designs is the issue, not the strength of the bones between those joints.

let's not forget generally steel>>>flesh

If Data's body were a solid steel ingot, this would be a really great rebuttal.

[NRS Guardian]

In X-wing: Wraith Squadron one of Zsinj's commandos says in responce to the claim that an extremely skilled martial artist can beat a Wookie, that no human can beat a Wookie. After a demonstration where the guy gets his ass handed to him by the woman, he says something to the effect of: nobody can beat a Wookie hand to hand, but if there was such a person this lady would probably be it. To clarify, this extremely skilled martial artist happens to be one of the top instructors in hand to hand combat in the New Republic. So even if someone is essentially one of the best human HtH combatants known, it's still pretty much a given that they'd end up as Wookie food.
Also, in the ROTS:VD and in the EU, Chewie is said to be a good navigator, this implies he is capable of doing complex mathematical calculations. Which would mean Chewie is more intelligent than some humans.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Also, in the ROTS:VD and in the EU, Chewie is said to be a good navigator, this implies he is capable of doing complex mathematical calculations. Which would mean Chewie is more intelligent than some humans.

in the young jedi knight's series where they visit Kashyyk (Wookie homeworld) they comment and see a number of highly advanced computer lab's and R&D's, meaning that of course Wookies are savages .

[Noble Ire]

in the young jedi knight's series where they visit Kashyyk (Wookie homeworld) they comment and see a number of highly advanced computer lab's and R&D's, meaning that of course Wookies are savages

And of course, In Dark Journey, when Jania needs a technical staff to research a captured Vong ship, she calls in a team of Wookiees. I guess they were just the janitors.

[PeZook]

Not to forget the Thrawn Trilogy, where Leia visits Kashyyk as well and stays quite a modern city wich is suspended amongst tree branches.

We can see there that wookies use landspeeders, repulsors and durasteel just like any other civilized society of Star Wars.

[Striderteen]

At one point when she's on Kashyyk, Leia's in a primitive basket elevator that's suspended by vines. She looks nervous because the vines are relatively thin, and the Wookie with her assures her that they're stronger than they look...and even if they break, there's an emergency repulsorlift system on the elevator. Leia does a mental "d'oh!" and reminds herself that even though Wookies *look* primitive, they are perfectly comfortable with advanced technology.