UK Muslims Fear Backlash

[Plekhanov]

Well, maybe. But by that same account if you grabbed any, say, 10 people in London I'd bet about half of them would be something other than white caucasian.

I think there is still just about a white majority in London thought I read somewhere recently that it is the most cosmopolitan city in the world, as was demonstrated by the photos of the missing shown in the papers the dead were remarkably diverse.

I agree with Rye on this the BBC probably did go slightly out of their way to show Muslim victims (not that they would have had to go very far) and if they did I entirely agree with that decision.

[TheDarkling]

Well, maybe. But by that same account if you grabbed any, say, 10 people in London I'd bet about half of them would be something other than white caucasian.

30% of London's residnets are non white (in 2001), so three people out of your random ten would be other than white.

45% of all the non white people in the UK live in London.

[Coyote]

Many don't claim to be 'civilised', as this is effectively a euphemism for 'Westernised' in this context. They stick to their interpretation of the Islamic religious texts and don't bow to peer pressure.

Although an insightful Muslim will remember that the Islamic Empire had a lock on "civilized" behavior long before the West could lay similar claim. When Muslims I know in debates or arguments point to the glories and advances that Islam brought to the world, I notice that none of them come after the era of the Enlightenment.

All the things I mentioned before-- rights to women, literacy, education, etc-- the West began to outpace them. The Islamic answer was to return to their spiritual fundamentals rather than their critical thinking fundamentals.

The thing is, there is ample historical evidence and background to support the claim that Islam is a religion of peace, thought, and tolerance. Its just that no one in a position of authority to influence Islam has been at the helm for centuries. Every setback was met with "more Allah" and disdain for the "infidels" and their material possessions. When Islam was on top of the game, it was because Allah and the Sunna of the Prophet encouraged learning, education, and critical thought.

Civilized = Westernized only by the most paranoid stretch of the imagination. Where have those days gone?

[The Grim Squeaker]

Many don't claim to be 'civilised', as this is effectively a euphemism for 'Westernised' in this context. They stick to their interpretation of the Islamic religious texts and don't bow to peer pressure.

Although an insightful Muslim will remember that the Islamic Empire had a lock on "civilized" behavior long before the West could lay similar claim. When Muslims I know in debates or arguments point to the glories and advances that Islam brought to the world, I notice that none of them come after the era of the Enlightenment.

All the things I mentioned before-- rights to women, literacy, education, etc-- the West began to outpace them. The Islamic answer was to return to their spiritual fundamentals rather than their critical thinking fundamentals.

The thing is, there is ample historical evidence and background to support the claim that Islam is a religion of peace, thought, and tolerance. Its just that no one in a position of authority to influence Islam has been at the helm for centuries. Every setback was met with "more Allah" and disdain for the "infidels" and their material possessions. When Islam was on top of the game, it was because Allah and the Sunna of the Prophet encouraged learning, education, and critical thought.

Civilized = Westernized only by the most paranoid stretch of the imagination. Where have those days gone?

Interesting, last time I read anything about the decline of Islam (The Haj) it said that one of the reasons was the increasing mongol invasions that bled the empire causing a regression as well as causing more intolerance towards outsiders, Jews for example were once the doctors, philosophers etc.. of the empire and were very highly regarded by Muhamed after a few centuries even before the increased Palestine immigrations the status towards jews was nearly as bad as in eastern europe. (slightly less progroms but pogroms nonetheless)

[Coyote]

Interesting, last time I read anything about the decline of Islam (The Haj) it said that one of the reasons was the increasing mongol invasions that bled the empire causing a regression as well as causing more intolerance towards outsiders...

The "Haj" or "Hajj" is the annual pilgrimage to Mecca. Unles you've run across a take on the word that I have not heard before.

But yes, the decline in the Islamic Empire was caused by the Mongols, but the distrust in outsiders and foreign beliefs and philosophies was a part of that. Still, the Mongols were in many areas assimilated into Islam, to the point that there is a large Muslim population living in Western China today.

...Jews for example were once the doctors, philosophers etc.. of the empire and were very highly regarded by Muhamed after a few centuries even before the increased Palestine immigrations the status towards jews was nearly as bad as in eastern europe. (slightly less progroms but pogroms nonetheless)

During the Crusades, Salah-al'diin (Saladin) had a close advisor who was a Jew, Musa Maimun ibn-Maimun, or Moses Maimonodes as he was known in the West. Salah-al'diin himself was a Kurd from northern Iraq. Jews and Chjristians wer elaregley tolerated and even held in high esteem. Jews frequently held high positions in the courts of the sultans.

If there was some need to blame the Sultan for anything, he would deflect blame onto the 'court Jew' and dismiss him, frequently, I am told, to re-hire him some time later when the ruckus had died down. Christians and Jews had to pay a tax but I am of the understanding that it was a largely live-and-let-live situation.

Again, tolerance was more widely practiced back in these much-ballyhood "Golden Age Days" of Islam, something the radical fundies haven't stopped to consider. This hypocrisy is not pointed out by Muslim scholars in the know, and most of them are. They've got oo much tied in with the jihadist movement to declare them apostates now.