Darth Vader on trial

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2005-07-10 11:37am

I agree that Vader should be pumped for all the information he can provide, including information about the Force that he can teach to Luke, and then executed. However, it should be done openly. I'm not a fan of the "fake his death and send him to some secret location" idea, because this would weaken the Republic. First, they have to spend a huge amount of resources to keep the fact a secret for as long as the Republic lasts. Second, if the Empire or some other enemy of the Repulbic found out that they did it, they could publicize it as an example of how hypocritical the Republic is.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2005-07-10 12:25pm

Lord Revan wrote:
Ford Prefect wrote:I might point out that the galaxy got over Kyp Durron's handiwork with the Suncrusher because Luke had said he had repented. Of course, he had become a huge hero by then.
yep, but Kyp wasn't know to have personally killed younglings in cold blood (Vader on other did do that (and Bail Organa knew about this so likely that the rest of the leaders of the Rebellion knew as well)) what Kyp did was while brutal also impersonal (he only saw personally only one person being killed by the Suncrusher(his Brother))

Also remember, Kyp targeted Imperial held systems.

But if the death penalty exists in the New Republic, then more than likely Vader would go, and I don't think Anakin would object. He was forgiven by the force and by his son, that's enough for him.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-07-10 12:43pm

nightmare wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:while Kyp did survive with out punishment, Revan did not (his memory was altered, so he was for all intents and purposes a different person after that).
Was he? Or was Kreia right? The true Revan came back instead after stripping off the shell? Also don't forget that the Jedi never considered it a punishment, but a second chance. If you listened to Bastila's lectures, you would know that. The Jedi Masters confirmed this indirectly as well.

to quote Obi-wan

Obi-wan Kenobi wrote:you'll find that the thruths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view

from Darth Revan's (or Darth Malak's) POV it's a punishment, from the Jedi POV it a second chance (you gotta to remember that the Jedi and the Sith are fundies)

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2005-07-10 12:45pm

Trytostaydead wrote:But if the death penalty exists in the New Republic

Bevel Lemelisk was executed for war crimes. I seem to recall a few others suffered the same fate, however it looked like it was an exception from the rule. Public appeasement, perhaps.

Lord Revan wrote:to quote Obi-wan
Obi-wan Kenobi wrote:you'll find that the thruths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view
from Darth Revan's (or Darth Malak's) POV it's a punishment, from the Jedi POV it a second chance (you gotta to remember that the Jedi and the Sith are fundies)

Fair enough. The lightside version is the official one though, and according to that, it seems like Revan forgave them the deed. While not every Jedi is quite so forgiving, I would say its their ideal to forgive any misdeed if truly repented.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2005-07-10 01:06pm

The Shadow wrote:I wonder if Vader is indeed sentenced to an execution against his will what would Luke do ? Would he attack the Rebellion he fought for to free his father ?

I'd have to say, "Yes." Luke clearly cares about his father, and if he must deceive the Rebels to save Anakin, he will.

Of course, with their combined powers, the Skywalkers wouldn't have any trouble tricking the Rebel tribunal into thinking Vader's already dead. Meanwhile, Luke takes Anakin to... maybe Bespin... to live out the rest of his days in peace.

Aquatain · Post by **Aquatain** » 2005-07-10 01:12pm

Could't vader get of by claiming insanity at the moment of his crimes?

Booming voice with added wheezing " your honor i fell in with a bad kult like orginization who brainwashed me into thinking Planetside is fun *wheeze'n'sniff*".

Or try to write it all of as a series of unfurtunate events.

Booming voice with added wheezing "and finally,.. Your honor i can asure you that i didn't know that Deat Star was loaded."

Perseid · Post by **Perseid** » 2005-07-10 01:18pm

Personally I'd use Vader to end the war as fast as possible. He is the Emperors right hand man and he would be the one to inherit control of the Empire in the event of the Emperors death. As a result Vader would be able to put the Rebel Alliance incharge on Coruscant with all of the resources of the Empire at their disposal. Hopefully with the systems that would stay loyal thanks to Vader signing things over to the New Republic and with the vast resources of the fleet, the fighting to eliminate the last vestiges of the Empire shouldn't take more than a decade at most.

To do with Vader himseld, IIRC theres a section in the ESB novel which states that Vader started to focus his anger through the force to heal himself in an attempt to free himself from the armour. Whats to stop him from using a jedi healing trance (or any other healing technique) to heal his body, whilst the medictechs give him new versions of his arms and legs. This way the last vestiges of Vader are gone and we only have Anakin Skywalker, the hero.

DrkHelmet · Post by **DrkHelmet** » 2005-07-10 01:42pm

I am reminded of something Obi-Wan said. "Your father is dead, from a certain point of view." (Or something like that) It would not be hard for Luke and his daddy together to convince the rebellion that Darth Vader is dead, and Anakin Skywalker resurrected, from a certain point of view. You don't just pass up being able the strongest Jedi who ever lived. You use him, like

Shroom Man 777 wrote:a hooker with a heart of gold.

[/quote]

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-07-10 01:55pm

Vader's a mass murderer on the scale of Hitler? Since when?

DrkHelmet · Post by **DrkHelmet** » 2005-07-10 02:02pm

gladius wrote:Vader's a mass murderer on the scale of Hitler? Since when?

How about when one of his men blew up Alderaan? I would call that a mass murder. (Not to mention killing everyone in the Jedi Temple and stuff)

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-07-10 02:07pm

DrkHelmet wrote:
gladius wrote:Vader's a mass murderer on the scale of Hitler? Since when?
How about when one of his men blew up Alderaan? I would call that a mass murder. (Not to mention killing everyone in the Jedi Temple and stuff)

Tarkin was never under his command. Both the novel and movie supposrt this thought.

And last I heard killing hundreds, while vile is nowhere near the levels of millions.

DrkHelmet · Post by **DrkHelmet** » 2005-07-10 02:11pm

Ghost Rider wrote: Tarkin was never under his command. Both the novel and movie supposrt this thought.

Sorry, I thought everyone in the Empire was under Vader's command. If Tarkin is not subject to Vader, how is Vader the Empire's right hand? Whether he was acting on direct orders or not is irrelevant, Hitler very rarely directly ordered them to kill any particular prisoner, but they got the gist of it. Then again, perhaps something in the EU sheds a different light on it. I haven't read the EU.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-07-10 02:23pm

The Death Star was Tarkin's project; Vader was there as an observer, but had no control over it. He deferred to Tarkin in all matters.

As for the events in RotS-- Anakin/Vader was engaging and eliminating the members of a cult who, as far as he knew, were engaged in an attempted coup against the lawful government. They were rebels, insurrectionists, and enemy combatants, no helpless civilians.

DrkHelmet · Post by **DrkHelmet** » 2005-07-10 02:25pm

gladius wrote:The Death Star was Tarkin's project; Vader was there as an observer, but had no control over it. He deferred to Tarkin in all matters.

Withdrawn.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2005-07-10 02:29pm

Full amnesty for Vader.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-07-10 02:52pm

nightmare wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:to quote Obi-wan
Obi-wan Kenobi wrote:you'll find that the thruths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view
from Darth Revan's (or Darth Malak's) POV it's a punishment, from the Jedi POV it a second chance (you gotta to remember that the Jedi and the Sith are fundies)
Fair enough. The lightside version is the official one though, and according to that, it seems like Revan forgave them the deed. While not every Jedi is quite so forgiving, I would say its their ideal to forgive any misdeed if truly repented.

well the Jedi are against the death penalty (well most Jedi anyway) and thing is while Revan forgave the Jedi in the end, it doesn't chance the fact that in publics as well as the Sith's POV this considered a severe punishment (the death of the person in a sence).

Sorry, I thought everyone in the Empire was under Vader's command. If Tarkin is not subject to Vader, how is Vader the Empire's right hand?

Darth Vader had no official position in Empire pior being pointed the head of Emperial military sometime post-ANH, but pre-ESB, before he just one several agents Darth Sidious(AKA Emperor Palpatine) used.

DrkHelmet · Post by **DrkHelmet** » 2005-07-10 02:54pm

Lord Revan wrote:Darth Vader had no official position in Empire pior being pointed the head of Emperial military sometime post-ANH, but pre-ESB, before he just one several agents Darth Sidious(AKA Emperor Palpatine) used.

I stand corrected. I had thought that immediately following the death of Mace Windu was when he became head of the imperial military.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-07-10 03:19pm

For the 'mass murderer' thing, note Vader's sterilization of a Falleen city after the accidental release of a bioweapon, upon his orders. On the one hand, it could be viewed as a 'save the majority by killing the minority' gesture; on the other, a callous act to eliminate embarrassement and save face.

While this is EU, as far as I know it hasn't been contradicted by canon.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-07-10 03:40pm

gladius wrote:
As for the events in RotS-- Anakin/Vader was engaging and eliminating the members of a cult who, as far as he knew, were engaged in an attempted coup against the lawful government. They were rebels, insurrectionists, and enemy combatants, no helpless civilians.

Children asking you for help do not qualify as combatants.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-07-10 04:01pm

You didn't see the part where a ten year old takes out a squad of clones?

DrkHelmet · Post by **DrkHelmet** » 2005-07-10 04:02pm

Crazedwraith wrote: Children asking you for help do not qualify as combatants.

Jedi children are capable of taking out several normal adults, as evidenced by the padawan who got killed after Senator Organa landed. Those children were a danger to the republic, at least the way he saw it.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-07-10 04:04pm

Only the Older Padawans were armed, the ten year old was probaly one of youngest armed or he took a saber from somebody else.

DrkHelmet · Post by **DrkHelmet** » 2005-07-10 04:11pm

I'm gonna extract a couple frames if I can, but I think the "Master Skywalker" kid had something in his right hand when Anakin walked in, and it glinted. I can also see something in his hand during the frame where Anakin lights his saber. I'll see if I can get pictures.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-07-10 04:13pm

The kids Anakin confronts were all holding sabers. Don't you remember Yoda instructing three year olds in saber combat in AotC?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-07-10 04:14pm

gladius wrote:You didn't see the part where a ten year old takes out a squad of clones?

[Victor Meldrew]
I don't believe. I simply do not believe it
[/vm]

I'm talking about the younglings in the council chambers. Youi know the unarmed ones? the ones who go:

"There are too many. What shall we do, Master SKywalker?"

Cue Ani lighting his lightsabre and slaughtering the defenceless kids.