No Tantive IV in ROTS...

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-07-12 05:56am

"THESE AREN'T THE SHIPS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR!"

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2005-07-12 07:48am

I wonder how this happened... I mean did they intend to make it a different ship of similar design, then change their minds and made it the same ship, but didn't bother/remember to redo the model.

BTW I was under the impression that all Enterprises in ST were named just USS Enterprise with out the suffix which was added to the registry code (e.g. USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D, not USS Enterise-D). NCC-1701-D's dedication plaque appears to corroborate this link, likewise if you look closely this picture of the NCC-1701-A the ship's name is just USS Enterprise.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2005-07-12 08:28am

A very impressive and interesting page (I was especially thrilled by the drawings of the ROTS Tantive IV by Martyn Griffiths, btw what scale was that made from?)! My impression is that the ship was intended to be the Tantive IV from ANH, but the Cinefex quote clearly disproves this. I haven't seen any screenshots, but as I recall from my theatrical viewings of ROTS, the placement of the small hangar does support a length of 140-150 meters for the ship in ROTS.

However, there are also some very strange aspects of the ship. I don't know if this is of any interest, but still... As is evident in the "Tragedy 2" TV ad, the proportions of the cockpit window is much larger compared to the proportions of the ANH Tantive IV and the two airlocks (labelled as such in the Original Trilogy ICS) beneath the cockpit windows are also proportionally larger. Based on the TV ad and front pictures of the ANH T:IV, I've calculated that the cockpit on the ROTS T:IV constitutes 45.2 % of the width of the hammerhead, while the ANH T:IV constitutes 29.8 % of the hammerhead's width. Likewise, the airlocks on the ROTS T:IV consitutes 16.1 % of the hammerheads width vs 10.6 % on the ANH T:IV
(of course,It will have to wait for the ROTS DVD before any proper measurements can be taken).
As for the hammerhead itself, the jutting out features located on the sides of the hammerhead are also missing on the ROTS T:IV.

The Cinefex quote by Coleman is compelling, but one cannot completely disregard (however unlikely) the possibility that the ROTS Tantive IV underwent a major overhaul of the kind that Mr. Tully described.

As for the Millennium Falcon, since it is so small in ROTS and because of the camera angle, I can buy that it really is the MF. However, it's a pity that they managed to mess up not only the Falcon, but the Tantive IV and the Death Star as well.

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2005-07-12 10:27am

I was always under the impression it went through a major overhaul, like many others. Interesting that it apparently wasn't intended to be the same.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2005-07-12 12:14pm

Yes. Making changes to the ship over the span of 20 years isn't exactly what I call over-the-top implausibility.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-07-12 12:25pm

I think it's just one more thing that ticks off the puriests. I mean I can just imagine someone going:
"The F***! It's Not Da SAME!!111!!! Why Lucs SCrewww It UPP!!!

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2005-07-12 12:28pm

'tis very nice. I think the Death Star qualifies as the third comeback ship that's not what it seems to be.

Come to think of it, nothing's quite what it was. The ROTS Juggernaut is larger than the EU version and carries AA missiles. Dreadnaughts look suspiciously much like EU dreadnaughts but again not quite the same.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2005-07-12 12:54pm

What Dreadnaughts in ROTS? Maybe you're thinking of the Geonosian Dreadnought which isn't the same thing by a long shot.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-07-12 01:13pm

The ROTS Juggernaut is larger than the EU version and carries AA missiles.

They fixed that by making it the A6 model.

WyrdNyrd · Post by **WyrdNyrd** » 2005-07-13 05:31am

As for the MF, I guess it's even more likely that it would be modified extensively over a period of 20 years and several owners, especially given the character of some of those owners...

Interesting that all the MF models make the same mistake. I guess they're just compensating for the limits of the production process. It's obviously waaayy easier casting it as discrete top/side/bottom pieces, so maybe they presented the "trench ridges" as deliberate design, simpy to hide the seams that their process created.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-07-13 05:39am

They should have just called the ship in RoTS the Tantive III.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2005-07-13 05:52am

WyrdNyrd wrote:As for the MF, I guess it's even more likely that it would be modified extensively over a period of 20 years and several owners, especially given the character of some of those owners...

Interesting that all the MF models make the same mistake. I guess they're just compensating for the limits of the production process. It's obviously waaayy easier casting it as discrete top/side/bottom pieces, so maybe they presented the "trench ridges" as deliberate design, simpy to hide the seams that their process created.

I think it's strange that didn't they use and modify the CG MF model from the Special Edition instead of doing it this way.

Glimmervoid · Post by **Glimmervoid** » 2005-07-13 08:11am

Darth Fanboy wrote:They should have just called the ship in RoTS the Tantive III.

Did you read the article on Poe’s site. The number part of the name refers (probably) to a planet and not the version.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2005-07-13 10:18am

Mange the Swede wrote:
WyrdNyrd wrote:As for the MF, I guess it's even more likely that it would be modified extensively over a period of 20 years and several owners, especially given the character of some of those owners...

Interesting that all the MF models make the same mistake. I guess they're just compensating for the limits of the production process. It's obviously waaayy easier casting it as discrete top/side/bottom pieces, so maybe they presented the "trench ridges" as deliberate design, simpy to hide the seams that their process created.
I think it's strange that didn't they use and modify the CG MF model from the Special Edition instead of doing it this way.

It does make sense for the MF to be so different twenty years beforehand...it's way before Han or even Lando owned it, and every source I know of agrees that they made some pretty major modifications on it during their period of ownership.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 2005-07-13 07:33pm

<joking> Mabey when Lando or Han got hold of it, he had the MF chopped, channeled, and turned into a low-rider. This fully explains the thicker side-panels on the older, "stock" version. </joking>

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2005-07-13 08:02pm

I seem to recall encountering a series of blockade-runners named Tantave N in the old X-Wing computer game, but I don't have a working joystick (that really didn't sound right) right now so I can't check. Anyone else remember this?

Darwin wrote:<joking> Mabey when Lando or Han got hold of it, he had the MF chopped, channeled, and turned into a low-rider. This fully explains the thicker side-panels on the older, "stock" version. </joking>

That actually makes a fair bit of sense. I really don't mind the changes to the Falcon, as it's explicitly stated in ANH that Han had modified it extensively.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-07-13 08:19pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:I seem to recall encountering a series of blockade-runners named Tantave N in the old X-Wing computer game, but I don't have a working joystick (that really didn't sound right) right now so I can't check. Anyone else remember this?
Darwin wrote:<joking> Mabey when Lando or Han got hold of it, he had the MF chopped, channeled, and turned into a low-rider. This fully explains the thicker side-panels on the older, "stock" version. </joking>
That actually makes a fair bit of sense. I really don't mind the changes to the Falcon, as it's explicitly stated in ANH that Han had modified it extensively.

yes ther is and you escort the Tantive 1 - 5 into hyperspace. So Alderaan Has one ship naded after Each Planet/moon in the Tantive System

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-07-14 03:52pm

Personally, I don't see why the YT-1300 has to perceived to be the Falcon, rather than being a 1300 variant model.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2005-07-14 04:18pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Personally, I don't see why the YT-1300 has to perceived to be the Falcon, rather than being a 1300 variant model.

Welcome back! That it really is the Falcon is GL's intent, but that's it.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 2005-07-14 04:42pm

I have no problems with it being different in appearence. Han alone added large amounts of armor plating and weapon systems, not to mention having the entire drive section practically torn down and rebuilt, IIRC. Lando also made many modifications to the ship.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-07-14 04:46pm

Part of why I see it as being absurd is that it means that the Falcon was modded by basically having the entire ship split in half with about a foot or so of height removed, then put back together. We saw two YT-1300s on Naboo in AotC, so I have no problem thinking the one in RotS is just another one, specifically being some kind of model variant with higher walls.

Glimmervoid · Post by **Glimmervoid** » 2005-07-14 04:48pm

Vicious wrote:I have no problems with it being different in appearence. Han alone added large amounts of armor plating and weapon systems, not to mention having the entire drive section practically torn down and rebuilt, IIRC. Lando also made many modifications to the ship.

And who is to know if it went strait to lando it could have been through a lot of owners. I find it quit funny that people say it is not the falcon (one of the most modified ships in history) based on it looking a bit different. Especially seeing as a statement form Lucas has a place in the canon.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-07-14 05:08pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Part of why I see it as being absurd is that it means that the Falcon was modded by basically having the entire ship split in half with about a foot or so of height removed, then put back together. We saw two YT-1300s on Naboo in AotC, so I have no problem thinking the one in RotS is just another one, specifically being some kind of model variant with higher walls.

Show me a chopper motercyle made from a WWII Harley and put it next to an original one and you will swear they are different bikes altogather!

This level of modding isn't all that improbible or impossible.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 2005-07-14 05:10pm

Glimmervoid wrote: And who is to know if it went strait to lando it could have been through a lot of owners. I find it quit funny that people say it is not the falcon (one of the most modified ships in history) based on it looking a bit different. Especially seeing as a statement form Lucas has a place in the canon.

Indeed. In The Hutt Gambit Lando comments on how when he got the ship she was already fairly heavily modified and rigged to be a smuggler.

Spanky the Dolphin wrote:Part of why I see it as being absurd is that it means that the Falcon was modded by basically having the entire ship split in half with about a foot or so of height removed, then put back together. We saw two YT-1300s on Naboo in AotC, so I have no problem thinking the one in RotS is just another one, specifically being some kind of model variant with higher walls.

Problem is, Lucas has said that's the Falcon, so we can't just make it some random YT-1300. However, over the course of two decades, I can't her imagine not getting at least one major full-body overhaul. They did one in BFC, and it seems like it was a fairly normal procedure. What made the Falcon's overhaul unique was that the stresses she'd been put under had severely warped her frame, and a lot of Han's modifications had drastically altered her innards. The techs were amazed she was still flying after all she'd been through, but they didn't seem to think the general operation was unusual.

I'll try to dig up my copy of Before the Storm and find the scene. I'm going from memory, so things might be a bit shakey.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-07-14 05:15pm

Isolder74 wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Part of why I see it as being absurd is that it means that the Falcon was modded by basically having the entire ship split in half with about a foot or so of height removed, then put back together. We saw two YT-1300s on Naboo in AotC, so I have no problem thinking the one in RotS is just another one, specifically being some kind of model variant with higher walls.
Show me a chopper motercyle made from a WWII Harley and put it next to an original one and you will swear they are different bikes altogather!

This level of modding isn't all that improbible or impossible.

A 20th Century motorcycle and a 500k year civilisation starship are hardly comparable. Besides, removing about half a meter of deck height just doesn't strike me as being that usefull of a modification. For me it's easier to believe that it's just a different YT-1300 ship and model.

Vicious: IIRC, the modifications in the BFC weren't nearly that extensive.