Looking for a good squad-based tactical/RPG-lite

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-07-18 06:28am

Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel, Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate, Silent Storm, you know the subgenre. The question is: Where do I get more? I've played the above three pretty extensively, and I need fresh blood. I'm considering the expansion to S2, but are there any others out there that are any good?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-07-18 06:37am

The original and new (apparently far worse) X-com games are supposed to be very good.

the Commandos games are good for that but are insanely hard.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-07-18 06:38am

the .303 bookworm wrote:The original and new (apparently far worse) X-com games are supposed to be very good.

the Commandos games are good for that but are insanely hard.

Yeah, I have Commandos 2, but it's not really the subgenre I'm looking for. I'll take a gander at X-Com.

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-07-18 06:59am

Jagged Alliance 2.

ALFA: Anti-terror if its ever released.

SWAT 2 is an isometric tactical.

Acidburns · Post by **Acidburns** » 2005-07-18 08:22am

If you have a GBA Tactics Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics are worthwhile checking out.

Have you considered Soldiers: Heroes of World War 2? I know it's not turn based, but the level of detail and control you have is amazing. All the terrain is destructable too. Online Co-Op play rocks too.

It's the game commandos wanted to be

Edit: Jagged Alliance Gold pack is a nice buy too.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2005-07-18 09:30am

The GBA Fire Emblem's are good as well...certainly better than FFT if you ask me.

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2005-07-18 10:02am

weemadando wrote:Jagged Alliance 2.

Seconded. The best game in the genre, completely unsurpassed in every regard.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-07-18 10:04am

How about Syndicate?

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-07-18 10:32am

No, Sydnidate doesn't fit, IMO.

Jagged Alliance 2 is the best you'll get, easily.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-07-18 11:54am

Cool, I'll check out JA2 then. And I do have SWAT 2 around somewhere, though I haven't played it in years.

Out of curiousity, how the hell does a squad tactical work on a console or portable? Even with a strict turn-based system, how can you do it without a mouse (or keyboard for that matter -- I gotta have my stand/crouch/prone hotkeys)?

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-07-18 12:09pm

They DID Have X-COM for the PS1. It probably bombed though.

Em. You may also want to try Laser Squad Nemesis.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2005-07-18 02:36pm

I still rank X-Com as the #1 best game of all time. JA2 is also excellent.

Sharpshooter · Post by **Sharpshooter** » 2005-07-18 07:17pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I still rank X-Com as the #1 best game of all time.

Which one, the original, Terror from the Deep, or Apocalypse?

The original was quite good, but I personally prefer Apocalypse as my favorite of the line. Being able to do games in real-time was quite nice enough, but throw in the ability to have massive aerial battles, improve your agents without having to go into battle every single time, equip your troops en masse, and do actual raids and stuff against other groups brought it up to a whole new level. Really, the only thing that was wrong with it was the retro design scheme for most of the stuff, and that's more or les based on bias.

But Terror from the Deep? Crap.

But anyway, if you're looking for a tactical gae ith some RPG elements, X-COM: Apocalypse is definetily the way to go, provided you have a machine or emulator that can run it.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2005-07-18 07:26pm

Perhaps it's better to compare them to rpgs or strategic level wargames that happen to use individual characters, in the GBA case. Closest PC analogue to Fire Emblem I can think off gameplay-wise is actually Panzer General, so maybe it is not what you're looking for exactly...

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-07-18 08:00pm

Soldiers: Heroes of WW2 is good, but it can get a touch frantic...

Acidburns · Post by **Acidburns** » 2005-07-18 08:37pm

weemadando wrote:Soldiers: Heroes of WW2 is good, but it can get a touch frantic...

When it gets frantic, its time to take manual control of a heavy machinegunner hehe. Or a well placed grenade. You can pause it to give out orders too, if you like that kinda thing.

I completly forgot about the X-com series. UFO and TFTD are pretty dated now, but Apocalypse was definetly my fave too. The choice between realtime and turnbased was nice. I think i prefered realtime in the end, I find it much easier to take cover, and wait for the damn aliens to come to me and get blatsted. Oh, and could actually get a chance to kill the damn brainsuckers before they jumped someone.

Oh, I just remember a real great one! Incubation, by Blue Byte. That was pretty sweet, and good 3D graphics for the time. Anyone else remember it?

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-07-18 08:54pm

The solution in multiplayer S:HOWW2, should always be your cheapest infantry unit (with a grenade), direct controlled so he holds the grenade, with pin pulled and charges into the unsuspecting enemy position.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-07-18 09:11pm

Acidburns wrote:
weemadando wrote:Soldiers: Heroes of WW2 is good, but it can get a touch frantic...
When it gets frantic, its time to take manual control of a heavy machinegunner hehe. Or a well placed grenade. You can pause it to give out orders too, if you like that kinda thing.

I completly forgot about the X-com series. UFO and TFTD are pretty dated now, but Apocalypse was definetly my fave too. The choice between realtime and turnbased was nice. I think i prefered realtime in the end, I find it much easier to take cover, and wait for the damn aliens to come to me and get blatsted. Oh, and could actually get a chance to kill the damn brainsuckers before they jumped someone.

Oh, I just remember a real great one! Incubation, by Blue Byte. That was pretty sweet, and good 3D graphics for the time. Anyone else remember it?

I played Incubation! It was really, really good. But the entire game basically has you just (over) using overwatch, and praying that you don't run out of ammo. It played like.. AvP meets Space Hulk, another old comptuer game of that sort. Which kinda sucked. But mew.

Acidburns · Post by **Acidburns** » 2005-07-18 09:43pm

weemadando wrote:The solution in multiplayer S:HOWW2, should always be your cheapest infantry unit (with a grenade), direct controlled so he holds the grenade, with pin pulled and charges into the unsuspecting enemy position.

I can't help but wince when someone carrying an anti-tank grenade gets shot.

BAM! *Leg hurtles across map*

As for Incubation, the flamer was great fun.

Has anyone here played UFO Aftermath? I heard it was pretty poor....

It's a shame theres not been much activity in this genre for a while now.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-07-18 09:52pm

UFO:A had potential, but they screwed up massively on 3 counts that could have been solved easilly.

1. More than 7 people in a squad.
2. More global management.
3. Turn basedness. I mean, so you can do SOMETHING besides march a wall of 7 soldiers with automatic weapons through the map.
4. BALANCE. Stop giving everyone auto rocket launchers! Mind Control is ridiculously strong. Why is my shotgun more powerful than a tank gun?

It did get good graphics, environments and lots of small details well though.

Acidburns · Post by **Acidburns** » 2005-07-18 10:09pm

Hey, another thing: I remember reading some time ago about a team rebuilding UFO: Invasion in 3D. Can't remeber what engine it was or the name however (doh). Was looking pretty good, and was playable at the time. Might be a good way to play the game without going blind staring at the horrible low res. graphics. Free download to boot.

I believe Laser Squad Nemesis has been named already. Solid online base and 3 sides (maybe a fourth one now?). Made by the original UFO team too. Worthwhile checking out.

Sharpshooter · Post by **Sharpshooter** » 2005-07-18 10:51pm

Acidburns wrote:Hey, another thing: I remember reading some time ago about a team rebuilding UFO: Invasion in 3D. Can't remeber what engine it was or the name however (doh). Was looking pretty good, and was playable at the time. Might be a good way to play the game without going blind staring at the horrible low res. graphics. Free download to boot.

Shoot, I remember that now - I read about it when I was looking for a TftD editor to fix my borked-up research queue. Hold on, I might still have the files on my old PC, and it might have one of those read-mes that linkbac to the source page where I heard about it...

Nailed it! Xenocide is the name you're looking for. Looks pretty good, from some of the shots I've seen, so I'll take a gander when I have enough time....

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-07-18 11:11pm

Acidburns wrote:
weemadando wrote:The solution in multiplayer S:HOWW2, should always be your cheapest infantry unit (with a grenade), direct controlled so he holds the grenade, with pin pulled and charges into the unsuspecting enemy position.
I can't help but wince when someone carrying an anti-tank grenade gets shot.

BAM! *Leg hurtles across map*

A friend an I had a "hunting" competition once with several third parties "keeping score".

"The fuhrer demands that all rabbits must die!"

And cows just disappear when hit by 88m HE.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2005-07-19 02:04am

Acidburns wrote:I completly forgot about the X-com series. UFO and TFTD are pretty dated now, but Apocalypse was definetly my fave too.

The original X-Com is not "dated", except in interface. The graphics may be simple, but they are still visually pleasing. All of the different systems that make up the combat, damage, movement, interruptions, are just about perfect. The strategic part was involved and challenging, but simple. There are multiple effective strategies for building squads and fighting. Most games have a magic bullet that's always the best. And it has features that I've seen in only a few games in the 11 years since it came out, like being able to knock holes in walls, trash buildings, start fires with accompanying smoke and lighting, and scorch terrain. The original X-Com has a feature set, simplicity, and "just right" feel that no other strategy game can match.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-07-19 02:26am

Nephtys wrote:I played Incubation! It was really, really good. But the entire game basically has you just (over) using overwatch, and praying that you don't run out of ammo. It played like.. AvP meets Space Hulk, another old comptuer game of that sort. Which kinda sucked. But mew.

Space Hulk! What kind of 40ker would I be if I wasn't familiar with that?

Anyways... sounds like X-Com UFO Defense, Apocalypse, and Jagged Alliance 2 are what I'm looking for. Thanks all.