DNA, Christian Forum Style

[Magnetic]

Okay, last new post for today.

Spartan: Doesn't DNA contain, in simple terms, a map and plans for building a human being? How do scientists explain how organized, complex information got in the DNA in the first place? To me, it looks like it's evidence for intelligent design.

Thoughts?

Mighty Mutt (a forum mod): Billions of years of randomness until something stuck. Duh.

AlphaNumeric: You can't use that as an argument. Because science can't prove it God made it. That doesn't make sense to me. Thats the same as making a sun god because you don't know why the sun rises.

mattlad22: but we do know why the Sun rises..God makes it rise.

AlphaNumeric: k

mattlad22: lol...sorry im not much of a science nut..i like the whole concept of science, and it fits His prophecie to Daniel very well..but the only thing i know about science is how God did everything.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Okay, they're not all like that on there, in fact, some do have a pretty good grounding in science and physics.

[Xero Cool Down]

You could just post a link to the forum so we could read it there.

[Darth Wong]

Spartan: Doesn't DNA contain, in simple terms, a map and plans for building a human being? How do scientists explain how organized, complex information got in the DNA in the first place? To me, it looks like it's evidence for intelligent design.

It's sad when scientists can spend their lives coming up with precisely the sort of explanations that these people demand, yet they act as though no such explanations exist.

[Utsanomiko]

Why spend any time learning or studying anything when the answer is always 'God did it'?

[The Wookiee]

Why spend any time learning or studying anything when the answer is always 'God did it'?

Because he did, the Bible says so, heathen.


This is intellectual laziness at its extreme.

[Ninja of the North]

Fundies never cease to amaze me. Seriously, how the hell do you get to be THAT ignorant?

[The Grim Squeaker]

Fundies never cease to amaze me. Seriously, how the hell do you get to be THAT ignorant?

Inbreeding and a pig headed determination to be right despite whatever logic, scientific, or contradictory quotes from the bible may try to hamper the true believers.

[Xero Cool Down]

Why spend any time learning or studying anything when the answer is always 'God did it'?

Thank goodness many Christian scientists didn't say that or we would still be living in the dark ages.

[Darth Wong]

Why spend any time learning or studying anything when the answer is always 'God did it'?

Thank goodness many Christian scientists didn't say that or we would still be living in the dark ages.

Not really. If Europe had never entered the Enlightenment period, some other part of the world would have eventually made these advancements. They made these advancements because they were scientists first and Christians second. The people who had it the other way around became priests.

[Xero Cool Down]

Not really. If Europe had never entered the Enlightenment period, some other part of the world would have eventually made these advancements.

True, but the world would have taken much longer to get to the level that we are at now.

They made these advancements because they were scientists first and Christians second. The people who had it the other way around became priests.

I think that they would have probably have told you that they are just as much Christian as they are scientist, as would many scientists today. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Civil War Man]

I think that they would have probably have told you that they are just as much Christian as they are scientist, as would many scientists today. The two are not mutually exclusive.

They are not necessarily exclusive, no. But the presence of one of those characteristics makes it more difficult for the person to maintain the other. Someone who thinks very scientifically is going to have a harder time maintaining a semblence of religion, while a very religious person is going to have a harder time looking at things in a scientific way.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Why spend any time learning or studying anything when the answer is always 'God did it'?

Thank goodness many Christian scientists didn't say that or we would still be living in the dark ages.

Not really. If Europe had never entered the Enlightenment period, some other part of the world would have eventually made these advancements. They made these advancements because they were scientists first and Christians second. The people who had it the other way around became priests.

What about Mendelson?

[Xero Cool Down]

I think that they would have probably have told you that they are just as much Christian as they are scientist, as would many scientists today. The two are not mutually exclusive.

They are not necessarily exclusive, no. But the presence of one of those characteristics makes it more difficult for the person to maintain the other. Someone who thinks very scientifically is going to have a harder time maintaining a semblence of religion, while a very religious person is going to have a harder time looking at things in a scientific way.

Not necessarily. About the only field that I can think of that that would possibly have any effect on is in the area of evolution or in some aspects of astrophysics.

[Darth Wong]

I think that they would have probably have told you that they are just as much Christian as they are scientist, as would many scientists today. The two are not mutually exclusive.

They are not necessarily exclusive, no. But the presence of one of those characteristics makes it more difficult for the person to maintain the other. Someone who thinks very scientifically is going to have a harder time maintaining a semblence of religion, while a very religious person is going to have a harder time looking at things in a scientific way.

Not necessarily. About the only field that I can think of that that would possibly have any effect on is in the area of evolution or in some aspects of astrophysics.

Nonsense. Anyone who practises any kind of science must erect a very firm wall between those methods and his belief system, because if he ever dared to apply those philosophical methods to his belief system they would lead to the inexorable conclusion that virtually all of it is nonsense.

[Xero Cool Down]

They are not necessarily exclusive, no. But the presence of one of those characteristics makes it more difficult for the person to maintain the other. Someone who thinks very scientifically is going to have a harder time maintaining a semblence of religion, while a very religious person is going to have a harder time looking at things in a scientific way.

Not necessarily. About the only field that I can think of that that would possibly have any effect on is in the area of evolution or in some aspects of astrophysics.

Nonsense. Anyone who practises any kind of science must erect a very firm wall between those methods and his belief system, because if he ever dared to apply those philosophical methods to his belief system they would lead to the inexorable conclusion that virtually all of it is nonsense.

Who said that they had to apply their scientific methods to their belief system? Many scientists will admit that their religious beliefs are a result of their faith and not evidence that has been found. How does a belief in a supreme being or some other commonly held religious belief affect a researcher's ability to make advances in the areas of material science, chemistry, engineering, physics or any of the many fields of study that do not come directly into conflict with that person's faith? The answer is that it doesn't, as evidenced by the fact that most of the sciences were developed by people who had faith in things that they had no evidence for.

[wolveraptor]

You have to realize that the WEST is the place where all that Church shit was happening. The Middle East was doing perfectly fine with Europe in the Dark Ages. Hell, if they had advanced into the modern age and discovered the power of oil first, they'd currently be the world's most powerful nation. Period.

[Xero Cool Down]

You have to realize that the WEST is the place where all that Church shit was happening. The Middle East was doing perfectly fine with Europe in the Dark Ages. Hell, if they had advanced into the modern age and discovered the power of oil first, they'd currently be the world's most powerful nation. Period.

Errrr church shit? We are talking about the middle east that is full of religious zelots at all levels of society and has been throughout all of known history?

[Nephtys]

Again, showing the complete lack of basic humilty with these people. Their arguments revolve around 'Well, this is plainly and CLEARLY obvious that X is too complicated for me to actually learn about. Thus, God did it.'

I hate people... and I suppose God is the motive force behind the electrons delivering these words to the internet.

[wolveraptor]

Errrr church shit? We are talking about the middle east that is full of religious zelots at all levels of society and has been throughout all of known history?

No. Why don't you actually read about the Middle East of Medieval times before making such massive generalizations? "Zealots throughout all of known history"? I don't think so. Hell, it was the Crusades that made them into zealots. Whenever you start recruiting a religious army, and you succeed in defeating your enemy with it, it'll only bolster religious fanaticism.

Here's the irony: the Crusades were started in order to strengthen the Catholic Church, but they ended up weakening it due to the successive defeats and disasters of the Crusades (Crusaders were almost totally unprepared for Middle East conditions, and they were more of a migration than a controlled army). This allowed Europe to move forward.

However, the Crusades strengthened Middle Eastern zeal, which began removing the emphasis of science (and also began restricting women's rights), and creating an impediment to progress. So by the modern era, they are in the Dark Ages, and the West is the supreme power.

[Xero Cool Down]

No. Why don't you actually read about the Middle East of Medieval times before making such massive generalizations? "Zealots throughout all of known history"? I don't think so. Hell, it was the Crusades that made them into zealots. Whenever you start recruiting a religious army, and you succeed in defeating your enemy with it, it'll only bolster religious fanaticism.

You do realize that the religion of Islam started around the 7th century A.D. and that its armies conquered all of the middle east, including most of the Byzantine Empire, in the 450 years between its beginning and the first crusade? They were religious zealots long before the Crusades, which just proves my point that someone can have faith in things that they have no evidence for and still be capable of scientific advancement.

[WyrdNyrd]

I hate people... and I suppose God is the motive force behind the electrons delivering these words to the internet.

Yup, just like it is God that prevents the protons in the nucleus from flying apart due to electrostatic forces.

He physically holds each and every nucleus in the universe together.

Someone here attributes that bit of nonsense to Jack Chick. I heard it independantly back in the late 80's, from my Christian Cell Group leader.

[Darth Wong]

Who said that they had to apply their scientific methods to their belief system?

Nobody, and thanks for the straw-man, moron. I was simply pointing out that they need to mentally segregate their science from their beliefs in order to function: a mental juggling act which is not necessary for nonbelievers and one which can lead to direct conflict in countless examples despite your bullfuckery to the contrary, such as somebody figuring out that the Flood is impossible (a fact discoverable through most fields of physics) or realizing that you can't build a wooden boat with the specifications of the Ark (a fact discoverable through engineering). Or figuring out that the earliest Egyptian pyramids date back to before the date the Flood supposedly occurred (a fact discoverable through archaeology). There is hardly any field of science which does not conflict with Christianity sooner or later even if there is no conscious effort to apply one to the other, unless you are either too ignorant or too stupid to realize it. That's why modern Christianity has been forced to either go radically fundamentalist or turn many of its beliefs into nonliteral mush.

[Rocker5150]

"It's sad when scientists can spend their lives coming up with precisely the sort of explanations that these people demand, yet they act as though no such explanations exist."

That statement is perfect to throw at my Christian friend. To him, even the most founded scientific theory is questioned. Despite Universities full of information, he tries to come up with *alternate* explainations for topics which have been answered for decades or even hundreds of years!

The 'God did it' answer really annoys me to no end. It isn't any different than saying, " I have no clue" but for some reason satisfies a scary amount of people. After I explained to my friend how Jupiter helps the Earth by sucking in comets, etc. and that we would not be here otherwise, his response was that God put it there for our protection. Sometimes it is almost as if I have brought him here through time, from the darkages, and am trying to update him with what has been learned. It is a very difficult process!


-Kevin

[Spoonist]

Our historybooks are filled with scientists who make real scientific breakthrough in some field, but are then deluded by their own belief system(s) and then waste large parts of their life on researching flimflam.
Isaac Newton and his alchemy comes to mind.
Benjamin Franklin would be another example.
etc

[wolveraptor]

You do realize that the religion of Islam started around the 7th century A.D. and that its armies conquered all of the middle east, including most of the Byzantine Empire, in the 450 years between its beginning and the first crusade? They were religious zealots long before the Crusades, which just proves my point that someone can have faith in things that they have no evidence for and still be capable of scientific advancement.

Yes, but the so-called, "Enlightenment Period", associated with the scientific rise of the Mid East, was not at its peak until after the Islamic Empire was well established. You could say they had periods of extreme zealous religiosity throughout their history.

Having faith in unprovable things is not the same as being religiously dedictated to an extreme. Think about modern Christians; most of them have lives beyond the Church. The same was true in medieval Islam.