Fundi camp for gays (need advice)

Davis 51 · Post by **Davis 51** » 2005-07-20 11:10am

No, aside from the NYT Piece. His father did an interview with CBN, a christian news group.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-07-20 11:11am

Davis 51 wrote:No, aside from the NYT Piece. His father did an interview with CBN, a christian news group.

... how did that go? I imagine they were kissing his ass the whole time? "Oh this must be so difficult for you to have a gay son..."

Davis 51 · Post by **Davis 51** » 2005-07-20 11:34am

Linky, linky, where is the linky?
Oh, here it is: linky

Davis 51 · Post by **Davis 51** » 2005-07-20 11:36am

Well, it is not so much of an interview as it is an article. His father does speak though

Crappy Parent Joe Stark wrote: “To me it's not what's right and what's left, it's what's right and what's wrong. My wife and I will stand by that 'till the day we die, as far as homosexuality is not in God's plan – it's wrong."

--Joe Stark

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2005-07-21 10:15pm

This firestorm that's been started is good, and may have real results, but I can't help feel but that the kid himself is going to be a neurotic mess for the rest of his life, just like any gulag survivor.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-07-22 02:19am

Yep, gayness ain't in God's plan...of course, he could've simply made it so everyone was straight, and that it was impossible to become gay. But no, he relies on Joe Fundie to keep his plans in motion...despite the fact he's an omnipotent all-powerful GOD.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-07-22 09:28am

Everyone is straight - they just pretend to be gay... remember?

Or there is the argument that God makes some people gay to challenge them and make them accept a life of chastity.

Personally I think of homosexuality as a real test of whether someone lives up to the Christian ideal of loving one's fellow man and trusting in the holy spirit. Then again, that's probably just me.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-07-22 10:00am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:This firestorm that's been started is good, and may have real results, but I can't help feel but that the kid himself is going to be a neurotic mess for the rest of his life, just like any gulag survivor.

...yeah, but that doesn't matter to his parents. After all, he'll be "cured".

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2005-07-22 06:42pm

Eleas wrote:
...yeah, but that doesn't matter to his parents. After all, he'll be "cured".

Maybe for a couple of years. There was one head of the "ex-gay" movement a few years back who had been a speaker at many churches, done seminars and so on, had married a woman, etc...

...And was found soliciting anonymous gay sex in a bar in Virginia.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-07-23 04:10am

The Guid wrote:Personally I think of homosexuality as a real test of whether someone lives up to the Christian ideal of loving one's fellow man.

Well, gays sure do love their fellow men.

Oh come on, you knew that was coming.

Seriously, if this camp works, he'll become yet another right-wing, gay-bashing closet case.

Oni Koneko Damien · Post by **Oni Koneko Damien** » 2005-07-23 10:04pm

Well, since he hasn't posted anything on myspace for a while, I'm assuming that the ensuing firestorm caused this shithole camp to clamp down especially hard on what few communication privaleges he had left. If this is the case, I'm assuming that things aren't getting any easier for Zach in this worthless hellhole. I'm more than a little worried for the kid, I'd really like to hear something either from him, or from a reasonably reliable source that's had direct contact with him.

If a story comes out that apparently Zach committed suicide a few weeks ago, I guess I'll have to change my views somewhat, and become an advocate for violence.

~Damienkitty

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2005-07-24 12:14am

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Well, since he hasn't posted anything on myspace for a while, I'm assuming that the ensuing firestorm caused this shithole camp to clamp down especially hard on what few communication privaleges he had left. If this is the case, I'm assuming that things aren't getting any easier for Zach in this worthless hellhole. I'm more than a little worried for the kid, I'd really like to hear something either from him, or from a reasonably reliable source that's had direct contact with him.

If a story comes out that apparently Zach committed suicide a few weeks ago, I guess I'll have to change my views somewhat, and become an advocate for violence.

~Damienkitty

Causing him to commit suicide is already a stated goal John Smid seeks. I therefore already advocate violence to free this kid.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2005-07-24 12:16am

mplsjocc wrote:
SilverClover14: FROM THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF LOVE IN ACTION:
"I would rather you commit suicide than have you leave Love In Action wanting to return to the gay lifestyle. In a physical death you could still have a spiritual resurrection; whereas, returning to homosexuality you are yielding yourself to a spiritual death from which there is no recovery." --The Final Indoctrination from John Smid, Director, Love In Action (LIA)

Post by **Kuja** » 2005-07-24 03:35am

Davis 51 wrote:Well, it is not so much of an interview as it is an article. His father does speak though

Crappy Parent Joe Stark wrote: “To me it's not what's right and what's left, it's what's right and what's wrong. My wife and I will stand by that 'till the day we die, as far as homosexuality is not in God's plan – it's wrong."

--Joe Stark

If homosexuality were not in Omniscient God's plan, it would not exist.

"I would rather you commit suicide than have you leave Love In Action wanting to return to the gay lifestyle. In a physical death you could still have a spiritual resurrection; whereas, returning to homosexuality you are yielding yourself to a spiritual death from which there is no recovery." --The Final Indoctrination from John Smid, Director, Love In Action (LIA)

He fails to mention that according to many religious beliefs, suicide sends you straight to hell.

But you keep on chugging, folks! Hail Yahweh!

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2005-07-24 06:13am

Kuja wrote:
If homosexuality were not in Omniscient God's plan, it would not exist.

"I would rather you commit suicide than have you leave Love In Action wanting to return to the gay lifestyle. In a physical death you could still have a spiritual resurrection; whereas, returning to homosexuality you are yielding yourself to a spiritual death from which there is no recovery." --The Final Indoctrination from John Smid, Director, Love In Action (LIA)
He fails to mention that according to many religious beliefs, suicide sends you straight to hell.

But you keep on chugging, folks! Hail Yahweh!

Those "many religious beliefs" include all forms of Christianity, without exception (save maybe universalist unitarians)--that statement of his is just incomprehensible ludicrous. I seriously think his only goal there is to try and brainwash people into committing suicide so that they die rather than increase his failure rate, since that will guarantee that business stays good.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-07-24 01:00pm

Oh come on, they aren't that sadistic. Sure, they may be reactionary, anti-gay hardcore fundies, but that doesn't mean they want to see kids die.

Fleet Admiral JD · Post by **Fleet Admiral JD** » 2005-07-24 01:33pm

wolveraptor wrote:Oh come on, they aren't that sadistic. Sure, they may be reactionary, anti-gay hardcore fundies, but that doesn't mean they want to see kids die.

D00d, did you even read the frigging quote? He said he'd rather have kids commit suicide than be gay.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-07-24 01:52pm

...I'm sure he was just...excited, at the time, and thus made a bit of an exaggeration.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2005-07-24 04:16pm

wolveraptor wrote:...I'm sure he was just...excited, at the time, and thus made a bit of an exaggeration.

Bullshit. The entire camp is an indoctrination facility to brainwash children, and the quote seems to be his final message to the kids when he lets them out. And you're saying he got a bit excited and must have been mistaken for a fundamentalist fucktard?

Hopefully you haven't read a thing in this topic, rather than actually believing what you're saying.

Davis 51 · Post by **Davis 51** » 2005-07-27 03:51pm

Linkified

Pflag wrote: July 26, 2005 – Washington, D.C. – As Zach Stark, the Tennessee teen who recently gained national attention after blogging his fears of being sent to Love in Action, is released from the program this week, Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) calls for an ongoing and substantive discussion about the effects of “reparative therapy” on young people and their families

“As families who have faced these very issues in our own lives, we must give Zach and his family the space and privacy they need to deal with this situation,” said Jody Huckaby, PFLAG’s executive director. “We also must insist, as allies and advocates for our gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) loved ones, that ‘reparative therapy’ programs are not allowed to prosper unchallenged at the expense of our family members and friends.”

The “reparative therapy” industry uses disproved medical theories to “cure” GLBT persons and preys upon those in pain and confusion about matters of sexual orientation. Their claims and methods have been roundly denounced by the American Medical Association (AMA), American Psychiatric Association (APA) and other medical professionals.

PFLAG applauds greater scrutiny of “reparative therapy”, “conversion therapy” or “ex-gay” programs. Because of the attention surrounding Zach’s story, the Tennessee Department of Health began an investigation and notified the unlicensed Love in Action that it was functioning illegally by claiming to offer therapy and could face prosecution by the district attorney.

Immediately before entering the program, Zach wrote, “I’ve been through hell. I’ve been emotionally torn apart for three days” and “Honestly how could you support a program like this? If I do come out straight I’ll be so mentally unstable and depressed it won’t matter.”

Zach’s fears were well-founded. According to the AMA and APA, “reparative therapy” does not work. But the dangers of these programs are real. At a minimum, those in “reparative therapy” must cope with the emotional damage of being relentlessly badgered with fear tactics and being told to change who they are. At worse they are at risk for self-destructive behavior including suicide.

Mary Lou Wallner and her husband Bob know the damage of “reparative therapy” all too well. Speaking at a recent PFLAG conference in Bothell, Washington, Mary Lou told the audience that her reaction when her daughter came out was based on the teachings of Dr. James Dobson, a leading “reparative therapy” proponent. “I raised my kids on Dobson. I read his books and listened to his radio broadcasts for years. In December of 1988, when she was about 21 years old, my daughter wrote us a letter and told us that she was a lesbian. I flipped out and…the next nine years were pretty stormy. Then in February of 1997, at age 29, she committed suicide.”

“Looking back, I think a lot of it had to do with the way I taught her about homosexuality. I have since come to understand that almost anybody gets depressed if they can't be who they really are.”

Like the Wallners, Zach’s parents and other parents considering “reparative therapy” only want the best for their children. However, PFLAG families and our allies must re-double our efforts to educate about the dangers and alternatives to this soundly discredited “treatment.”

“Ultimately we want Zach to be who he is and we accept whatever decision he makes,” said Dr. Arnold Drake, president of PFLAG Memphis. “We also want Zach and his family to know that we’ve been through this before and we are ready and able to support them.”

So, Zach is out and the company is under investigation. Great Job people.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2005-07-28 12:28am

VICTORY!

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-07-28 01:41am

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:VICTORY!

It's not victory until the place is shut down permanently, the people who ran it charged and put away, and the children placed in homes where they will be loved.

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2005-07-28 02:10am

Well, at least this is a big step in the right direction. I hope the kid is okay, though. Jesus, I can't even imagine what kind of anguish he's going through right now.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-07-28 02:50am

That kid was supposed to spend 8 weeks in that camp. Isn't this just a tad short of 8 weeks?

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2005-07-28 03:21am

Paula Zahn snippet dealing with 'Love in Action'.

Transcript for those who don't want to download the video.

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Fundi camp for gays (need advice)

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