U.S. moves to extend daylight time

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2005-07-20 04:15pm

What the--?!

The U.S. Congress has adopted a plan to extend daylight time by two months each year as part of a sweeping new energy plan.

If U.S. President George W. Bush signs it into law, the plan means Americans would turn their clocks forward one hour on the first weekend of March, instead of April, and "fall back" on the final weekend in November instead of October.

Congress believes the extension would trim energy costs by cutting the need for artificial light in the evenings.

The change, due to take effect this autumn if Bush approves it, could cause headaches for Canadians during March and November, the two months the two countries would be out of sync.

Television and travel schedules could be affected, while the change could also mean implications for business operations between the two countries.

Canadian critics of the adjustment argue children will be walking to school in darkness while drivers may face increased morning black ice, which hasn't melted in the sun

Related story:

Provinces grapple with U.S. daylight time decision

CBC News

Provincial governments across Canada face a big-time decision as they deal with an American move to extend daylight time by two months, so that it starts on the first weekend in March and ends in November.

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty says his government will "seriously" consider its options after the U.S. House of Congress adopted the plan Tuesday, citing the need to save energy by cutting the need for artificial light in the evenings.

"We're not anxious to have a disconnect between us and our chief trading partner," McGuinty said Wednesday.

However, McGuinty said he would also want to know how any change would affect families, given that children and parents would be travelling to and from school and work in the dark more often in the winter if Canada follows the U.S. lead.

In Quebec, Premier Jean Charest's office told CBC News the province will consider how to gauge the impact of the American change on Quebec's business community.

Manitoba Premier Gary Doer is among those worried about being out of sync with U.S. clocks.

Doer's office told CBC News that Manitoba's transportation sector would be hurt if the province decides not to go along with the new U.S. system.

Doer is already suggesting the daylight time issue should be on the agenda at a premiers meeting this summer.

On Prince Edward Island, the deputy minister of energy said there are no plans at present to change the time there. But John McQuarrie added that the province is willing to look at anything to save energy costs and cut down on energy consumption.

Currently in Canada and the U.S., daylight time runs from April through October. The exception in Canada is Saskatchewan, which keeps its clocks the same throughout the year.

The American change, due to take effect this autumn if U.S. President George W. Bush signs it into law, could cause headaches for Canadians during March and November, the two months the two countries would be out of sync.

Business leaders in Canada are already speaking out about the need to give the idea close and careful attention.

"There is potential for huge confusion here, and we need to be vigilant, to look at the range of implications," Len Crispino, president and CEO of the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, told the Canadian Press in Toronto.

Crispino used the example of the "just in time" delivery system that sees parts delivered to car plants, a major element of the Ontario economy.

The last time the United States and Canada observed different winter time systems was during the 1974-75 oil crisis. The U.S. did not turn its clocks back at all that fall in an attempt to conserve energy.

As a result, airline schedules involving flights from south of the border were occasionally one hour off, television schedules were mixed up and business associates regularly missed each other's phone calls

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-07-20 04:19pm

I really can't put it any other way. I can't help but think this will buttfuck international trade in some way, with the clocks screwed up even more than normal..

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2005-07-20 04:20pm

No skin off my noggin.

I don't quite understand the obession with staying on Daylight Savings or even having it to begin with. If it's so great why not make it regular time.

Or, why even have it at all. Businesses could just adjust the hours they are open if the amount of daylight makes a difference to them. People are likely to screw that up about as much as they screw up the switch to and from Daylight Savings time.

While we're changing things why not ditch this lame AM/PM crap and just go to 24 hour time?

Xero Cool Down · Post by **Xero Cool Down** » 2005-07-20 04:22pm

Congress believes the extension would trim energy costs by cutting the need for artificial light in the evenings.

It doesn't cut the need, since how we measure the time is arbitrary. It will still be dark if we call 5 A.M. that or 6 A.M.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2005-07-20 04:34pm

Xero Cool Down wrote:
Congress believes the extension would trim energy costs by cutting the need for artificial light in the evenings.

It doesn't cut the need, since how we measure the time is arbitrary. It will still be dark if we call 5 A.M. that or 6 A.M.

Of course it does. How many people are awake every morning at 5am, compared to 6am?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-07-20 06:29pm

Fuck that shit. Daylight savings needs to be done away with, not expanded.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-07-20 06:31pm

If this shitty law is passed I am seriously considering outright refusal to even abide by daylight savings.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-07-20 06:31pm

Alyeska wrote:Fuck that shit. Daylight savings needs to be done away with, not expanded.

Does daylight savings time even serve any kind of practical purpose anymore? Aside from causing me to lose an hour of sleep every year that is.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-07-20 06:36pm

Seriously, does Daylight Savings REALLY change anything? Does it save in any way on energy costs?? In the summer you turn on your AC's whether its light or dark and I sincerely doubt people don't turn on their lights in daylight, I know I do. Someone really needs to prove that Dayloght Savings does what its supposed to do before extending the fucking thing.

How about making fuel efficeint cars and exploring alternative energy sources before extending something that could adversely effect international trade?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-07-20 06:38pm

General Zod wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Fuck that shit. Daylight savings needs to be done away with, not expanded.
Does daylight savings time even serve any kind of practical purpose anymore? Aside from causing me to lose an hour of sleep every year that is.

Well clock stores loose about 160 hours of productivity every year having to adjust their clocks.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2005-07-20 08:11pm

What about traffic accidents? This would effectively mean that a lot more people would be driving to work in the dark.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2005-07-20 08:25pm

Funny how the OP doesn't note that Daylight Savings Time is NOT universal in the US. Arizona, for example, doesn't observe it at all. Neither does most of Indiana (which, by the way, has, depending on how you look at it, either 4 or 5 time zones all in one state). There's no guarantee that the US would follow this uniformly, either, so you might wind up with different states using different forms of DST.

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2005-07-20 08:29pm

Broomstick wrote:Funny how the OP doesn't note that Daylight Savings Time is NOT universal in the US. Arizona, for example, doesn't observe it at all. Neither does most of Indiana (which, by the way, has, depending on how you look at it, either 4 or 5 time zones all in one state). There's no guarantee that the US would follow this uniformly, either, so you might wind up with different states using different forms of DST.

And yet those places haven't exploded or drained away all their energy. Guess a state can function without it. Whodathunkit.

Daylight savings is bunk. It's never done anything for me, except make me lose/gain an hour (however that works, oy) and I'll be first in line to dance upon its grave when it dies its most deserved death.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2005-07-20 09:18pm

Erik von Nein wrote:
And yet those places haven't exploded or drained away all their energy. Guess a state can function without it. Whodathunkit.

Daylight savings is bunk. It's never done anything for me, except make me lose/gain an hour (however that works, oy) and I'll be first in line to dance upon its grave when it dies its most deserved death.

It helped win WW2 and to provide the absurd quantity of electrical power the Manhattan project required. Don't knock it as useless.

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2005-07-20 10:38pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:It helped win WW2 and to provide the absurd quantity of electrical power the Manhattan project required. Don't knock it as useless.

Granted, though, how is it useful now when other areas are effective without it?

Instant Sunrise · Post by **Instant Sunrise** » 2005-07-20 10:41pm

Lets just build more nuclear power plants.

Much easier than fucking around with DST.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-07-20 11:01pm

Why is Daylight Savings Time a matter for the US Congress?

Post by **Gandalf** » 2005-07-20 11:03pm

I guess because they have to pass the bill to "officially" change the nation's clocks.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2005-07-21 05:16am

Wait, the OP *ISN'T* a joke? WTF?

Braedley · Post by **Braedley** » 2005-07-21 05:12pm

I don't think any of you guys understand the value of having the sun rise and set an hour later in the summer quite like most Canadians do (with the notable exception of Saskatchewan, more on that later). In the summer, the sun rises earlier and sets later here than it does in most of the US. For example, Nova Scotia (which is about the same latitude as the nothern states like Maine, North Dakota, Washington, etc), the sun would rise about 4:30 in the morning on the summer soltice and set about 8:00 in the evening without DST. This is all fine and good, except there's at least an hour and a half of unusable sunlight in the morning. Now for anyone who works in a cubical without a window in an air conditioned highrise and never really gets to see the sun all day, and basically lazes on the couch all evening, this extra hour of sunlight in the evening makes little difference to you. If, however, you work in an un-air conditioned warehouse with a direct view of the weather outside (as I do for the summer), then along with the psychological benifits that the extra sun provides, physical comfort is also greatly improved. These last 4 days have been unseasonally warm and hummid, making the warehouse feel like it's well above 30 C (86 F), which can quickly become uncomfortable for us Maritimers (in fact, daytime highs for Monday and Tuesday were 29 C, several degrees above normal). By using DST, we can offset this discomfort by an hour, typically until after lunch when we only have 3 to 4 hours left of work anyways (instead of 4 to 5 hours). DST also has a big advantage for those that wish to enjoy a summer cottage. For example, by law in Canada (and presumably in the US), water sporst such as skiing and wakeboarding can't take place if it's been more than an hour since the sun has set. DST gives an extra hour after supper for someone to take a ski, when the water is more favourably calm. And anyone who has been waken up early by the sun in a tent knows the benifits that DST offer.

Now as to why Saskatchewan doesn't use DST. Saskatchewan's primary industry is (and has been) agriculture. Farmers would rise with the sun, or even earlier. If the sun rose an hour later, then they would get up an hour ealier. But that's not the main reason for them not using DST. It boils down to the fact that durring the wars, the reason for using DST in places like Ontario and Nova Scotia (Canada's primary manufacturing area and primary war port respectfully) just don't apply to Saskatchewan, so they haven't use it since.

As for the OP and the US governments decision to make DST go from Marh until November isn't very smart. I doubt trade will be affected like some say, but I do think public safety may be affected. I used to deliver morning papers back in junior high school, and even as I was finishing my route at 7, the sun would just be rising in March, and wouldn't have even thought about coming up in November. This means kids walking to school in the dark, people driving to work on icy roads that haven't had a chance to thaw out in the sun, etc., etc. All for what? A few gallons of foreign oil saved per person per year? Maybe a couple of extra bucks in a households pockets? Not good enough for me.

Mr. T · Post by **Mr. T** » 2005-07-21 08:17pm

This is really just the latest attempt to punish Canada, when will it end

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-07-21 08:57pm

Braedley wrote:I don't think any of you guys understand the value of having the sun rise and set an hour later in the summer quite like most Canadians do (with the notable exception of Saskatchewan, more on that later). In the summer, the sun rises earlier and sets later here than it does in most of the US. For example, Nova Scotia (which is about the same latitude as the nothern states like Maine, North Dakota, Washington, etc), the sun would rise about 4:30 in the morning on the summer soltice and set about 8:00 in the evening without DST. This is all fine and good, except there's at least an hour and a half of unusable sunlight in the morning. Now for anyone who works in a cubical without a window in an air conditioned highrise and never really gets to see the sun all day, and basically lazes on the couch all evening, this extra hour of sunlight in the evening makes little difference to you. If, however, you work in an un-air conditioned warehouse with a direct view of the weather outside (as I do for the summer), then along with the psychological benifits that the extra sun provides, physical comfort is also greatly improved. These last 4 days have been unseasonally warm and hummid, making the warehouse feel like it's well above 30 C (86 F), which can quickly become uncomfortable for us Maritimers (in fact, daytime highs for Monday and Tuesday were 29 C, several degrees above normal). By using DST, we can offset this discomfort by an hour, typically until after lunch when we only have 3 to 4 hours left of work anyways (instead of 4 to 5 hours). DST also has a big advantage for those that wish to enjoy a summer cottage. For example, by law in Canada (and presumably in the US), water sporst such as skiing and wakeboarding can't take place if it's been more than an hour since the sun has set. DST gives an extra hour after supper for someone to take a ski, when the water is more favourably calm. And anyone who has been waken up early by the sun in a tent knows the benifits that DST offer.

Now as to why Saskatchewan doesn't use DST. Saskatchewan's primary industry is (and has been) agriculture. Farmers would rise with the sun, or even earlier. If the sun rose an hour later, then they would get up an hour ealier. But that's not the main reason for them not using DST. It boils down to the fact that durring the wars, the reason for using DST in places like Ontario and Nova Scotia (Canada's primary manufacturing area and primary war port respectfully) just don't apply to Saskatchewan, so they haven't use it since.

As for the OP and the US governments decision to make DST go from Marh until November isn't very smart. I doubt trade will be affected like some say, but I do think public safety may be affected. I used to deliver morning papers back in junior high school, and even as I was finishing my route at 7, the sun would just be rising in March, and wouldn't have even thought about coming up in November. This means kids walking to school in the dark, people driving to work on icy roads that haven't had a chance to thaw out in the sun, etc., etc. All for what? A few gallons of foreign oil saved per person per year? Maybe a couple of extra bucks in a households pockets? Not good enough for me.

If you want to use the sun fucking change the work scheduel for the changing sun rises and sun sets. Don't force me to use the fucking stupid system. I like sticking to one single time, thats it.

xammer99 · Post by **xammer99** » 2005-07-22 01:54am

Broomstick wrote: Neither does most of Indiana (which, by the way, has, depending on how you look at it, either 4 or 5 time zones all in one state). There's no guarantee that the US would follow this uniformly, either, so you might wind up with different states using different forms of DST.

Not any more. The governor just pushed it through and we are on DST now. The question is now whether to be on EST or CST which'll be deceided by the time change next year.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2005-07-22 02:09am

Hmmm

I think I just thought of a reason why I might like the rest of the country staying on DST into November.

It means all the football games out East start earlier.

Monday Night Football finishing before it's time for the 2200 news.

I can possibly watch a game of college or pro football before going to bed. It also means all those horrible infomercials and religious programs will take ratings hits because football will be starting sooner.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2005-07-22 05:10am

xammer99 wrote:
Broomstick wrote: Neither does most of Indiana (which, by the way, has, depending on how you look at it, either 4 or 5 time zones all in one state). There's no guarantee that the US would follow this uniformly, either, so you might wind up with different states using different forms of DST.
Not any more. The governor just pushed it through and we are on DST now. The question is now whether to be on EST or CST which'll be deceided by the time change next year.

You are correct - that's a recent change I had forgotten. Of course, now there's the stupidity of not knowing what time zone you're in....

My vote is for CST, but then, I'm biased being in Lake County and working in Chicago. If the state goes to EST I'll be subject to a time zone change twice each working day.