Why is Earth always in harm's way?

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Now why did Starship troopers suck so much?

• Poor to non-existant plot.
• Poor acting (if that's what they called it)
• Poor character development.
• Stupid premise.
• Fucked up science.
• Poor military thought and planning and action.

But the main reason; When Starship Troopers was out in the cinema, it coencided with the release of S:AAB on TV. So I had extremely high standards to judge it on, and it failed in every single catagory.

I felt it was good for some laughs, especially the barracks scenes. But it's basically just a gung-ho jingo film.

[Patrick Degan]

Now why did Starship troopers suck so much?

• Poor to non-existant plot.
• Poor acting (if that's what they called it)
• Poor character development.
• Stupid premise.
• Fucked up science.
• Poor military thought and planning and action.

But the main reason; When Starship Troopers was out in the cinema, it coencided with the release of S:AAB on TV. So I had extremely high standards to judge it on, and it failed in every single catagory.

You forgot one more reason it sucked: the fact that the movie was a vehicle for Paul Veerhöven to explore/display his peculiar psychosexual hangups in ways that rival even Joel Schumacher.

[Yogi]

Why is it about the Earth being invaded? If it was another planet being invaded, then it wouldn't matter to us. Hence, it's the Earth that is the target.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

You forgot one more reason it sucked: the fact that the movie was a vehicle for Paul Veerhöven to explore/display his peculiar psychosexual hangups in ways that rival even Joel Schumacher.

Psychosexual? WTF?

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Starship Troopers *spitsonthefloor* was the worst bad ass movie I ever saw, and didn't leave the cinema, but IIRC (and I might be wrong about this I have only seen this movie that one time) weren't the humans invading the giant bugs? I can't really be too sure about this, mainly because I was actually going for the bugs and not the Troopers, but there you have it!

The humans were making a counter-attack on a bug-held world, in retaliation for annihilating a major city (forget which one, something in South America) with a redirected asteroid.

[haas mark]

Why is it about the Earth being invaded? If it was another planet being invaded, then it wouldn't matter to us. Hence, it's the Earth that is the target.

That sounds like the most reasonable answer so far.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Starship Troopers *spitsonthefloor* was the worst bad ass movie I ever saw, and didn't leave the cinema, but IIRC (and I might be wrong about this I have only seen this movie that one time) weren't the humans invading the giant bugs? I can't really be too sure about this, mainly because I was actually going for the bugs and not the Troopers, but there you have it!

The humans were making a counter-attack on a bug-held world, in retaliation for annihilating a major city (forget which one, something in South America) with a redirected asteroid.

I think it was Rio de Janeiro, IIRC. I'm not even sure if it was even named in the first place.

[neoolong]

The humans were making a counter-attack on a bug-held world, in retaliation for annihilating a major city (forget which one, something in South America) with a redirected asteroid.

I think it was Rio de Janeiro, IIRC. I'm not even sure if it was even named in the first place.

Buenos Aires actually.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

I writhe corrected.

[data_link]

Why is it about the Earth being invaded? If it was another planet being invaded, then it wouldn't matter to us. Hence, it's the Earth that is the target.

That sounds like the most reasonable answer so far.

Except it does not explain why such series as Lucafilm's "ALIEN Chronicles," which don't even mention humans, are popular.

[Crown]

But here is the thing: As far as I remember (AfaIR) the bugs were just sending spores out all over the place trying to colonise off their planet, so they weren't *attacking* Earth in the traditional sense. Now I know that doesn't mean we don't want our pound of flesh for revenge, but that's what I remember. Next since these spores were clearly seen to be traveling a hell of a lot slower that FTL than the bugs would have sent these spores *ages* ago, and if we assume that then they didn't even know that Earth was there ( it was just a lucky/unlucky hit) nor did they even comprehend the existance of humans.

So AfaIR the movie just broke down to; Look we have been inadvertantly attacked by a species of bugs that didn't even know we were here, didn't even specifically want to harm us in any way, but let's go over and teach them a lesson anyway eh?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[haas mark]

Why is it about the Earth being invaded? If it was another planet being invaded, then it wouldn't matter to us. Hence, it's the Earth that is the target.

That sounds like the most reasonable answer so far.

Except it does not explain why such series as Lucafilm's "ALIEN Chronicles," which don't even mention humans, are popular.

So?

[Patrick Degan]

You forgot one more reason it sucked: the fact that the movie was a vehicle for Paul Veerhöven to explore/display his peculiar psychosexual hangups in ways that rival even Joel Schumacher.

Psychosexual? WTF?

"Soldiers" who are post-pubecent teenagers photographed in more than one co-ed shower scene, Doogie Howser running around in his leather Gestapo costume the whole movie. Granted, those were not the whole of the movie, but they're up there with Joel having Batman and Robin run around in rubber costumes with nipples on them.

[data_link]

So... you have a theory which is in conflict with the observed evidence ("If it was another planet being invaded, then it wouldn't matter to us," which is in conflict with the observed evidence that people do care even if our planet isn't even mentioned at all.) That makes it wrong. So, Yogi's theory, because it can be easily proven wrong, is not the most reasonable answer so far.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

But here is the thing: As far as I remember (AfaIR) the bugs were just sending spores out all over the place trying to colonise off their planet, so they weren't *attacking* Earth in the traditional sense. Now I know that doesn't mean we don't want our pound of flesh for revenge, but that's what I remember. Next since these spores were clearly seen to be traveling a hell of a lot slower that FTL than the bugs would have sent these spores *ages* ago, and if we assume that then they didn't even know that Earth was there ( it was just a lucky/unlucky hit) nor did they even comprehend the existance of humans.

So AfaIR the movie just broke down to; Look we have been inadvertantly attacked by a species of bugs that didn't even know we were here, didn't even specifically want to harm us in any way, but let's go over and teach them a lesson anyway eh?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

If you're talking about Starship Troopers, in the movie they did indeed directly and intentionally attack Earth with asteroid bombardment. I have not read the book however, and if you're not talking about Starship Troopers, then ignore me

[haas mark]

So... you have a theory which is in conflict with the observed evidence ("If it was another planet being invaded, then it wouldn't matter to us," which is in conflict with the observed evidence that people do care even if our planet isn't even mentioned at all.) That makes it wrong. So, Yogi's theory, because it can be easily proven wrong, is not the most reasonable answer so far.

Wrong. If we are inveding another planet, it is not NEARLY as interesting as a planet being invded by us. IIRC, somewhere in this thread, someone stated that alien stories were an exception to this.

[Crown]

No I was talking about Starship Troopers, ha must have represed the only redeeming part of that movie along with all the other crap. Correction Accepted, thanks JediNeophyte.

[data_link]

So... you have a theory which is in conflict with the observed evidence ("If it was another planet being invaded, then it wouldn't matter to us," which is in conflict with the observed evidence that people do care even if our planet isn't even mentioned at all.) That makes it wrong. So, Yogi's theory, because it can be easily proven wrong, is not the most reasonable answer so far.

Wrong. If we are inveding another planet, it is not NEARLY as interesting as a planet being invded by us. IIRC, somewhere in this thread, someone stated that alien stories were an exception to this.

That someone being me. And that's not what Yogi wrote - she only said another planet being invaded, she didn't say by who. As for a planet being invaded by us, that would be just as interesting written from the defenders POV. The reason why nobody does this is because (as I said) people have locked themselves into the veiwpoint that stories involving us have to be written from a humanist perspective. This is because people are stupid.

[haas mark]

So... you have a theory which is in conflict with the observed evidence ("If it was another planet being invaded, then it wouldn't matter to us," which is in conflict with the observed evidence that people do care even if our planet isn't even mentioned at all.) That makes it wrong. So, Yogi's theory, because it can be easily proven wrong, is not the most reasonable answer so far.

Wrong. If we are inveding another planet, it is not NEARLY as interesting as a planet being invded by us. IIRC, somewhere in this thread, someone stated that alien stories were an exception to this.

That someone being me. And that's not what Yogi wrote - she only said another planet being invaded, she didn't say by who. As for a planet being invaded by us, that would be just as interesting written from the defenders POV. The reason why nobody does this is because (as I said) people have locked themselves into the veiwpoint that stories involving us have to be written from a humanist perspective. This is because people are stupid.

Ah. Okay. Makes sense. But you must admit, sometimes it is more fun readin/writing about being oppressed.

[data_link]

Ah. Okay. Makes sense. But you must admit, sometimes it is more fun reading/writing about being oppressed.

Of course. If you write about the opressors, then you run into the uncomfortable position of either having to justify them morally or risk a lack of empathy from your readers. This is why most people don't do it.[/quote]

[haas mark]

Ah. Okay. Makes sense. But you must admit, sometimes it is more fun reading/writing about being oppressed.

Of course. If you write about the opressors, then you run into the uncomfortable position of either having to justify them morally or risk a lack of empathy from your readers. This is why most people don't do it.

This is true. But I think that Card did a somewhat nice job of doing so, even if the morals weren't backed up all that well, other than self-defense.

[haas mark]

EDIT: At first it was self-defense, colonization came later, but they did not any longer destroy species.

[data_link]

This is true. But I think that Card did a somewhat nice job of doing so, even if the morals weren't backed up all that well, other than self-defense.

Yes, and you saw the total lack of emapthy he got from some people *coughpatrickdegancough*.

Personally, I thought he did a good job right up until the end, where it was learned that the Buggers had made telepathic contact with Ender - while I realize he needed a plot device to explain the Buggers point of veiw, I lost all respect for them when I realized that they had the means to communicate with the humans (ansible messages) and they didn't act to save their species because of some monumentally stupid attempt to "atone" for their mistakes. While I realize that they may have felt guilty for it, why the hell didn't they just apoligize and surrender, instead of carving up Ender's memories and costing the lives of still more pilots as well as their own by fighting back? Why the hell didn't they at least try to send these images to Ender when they might have acted to save their entire culture? While that didn't ruin the entire book, I did find that a bit of an annoyance.

[haas mark]

This is true. But I think that Card did a somewhat nice job of doing so, even if the morals weren't backed up all that well, other than self-defense.

Yes, and you saw the total lack of emapthy he got from some people *coughpatrickdegancough*.

Personally, I thought he did a good job right up until the end, where it was learned that the Buggers had made telepathic contact with Ender - while I realize he needed a plot device to explain the Buggers point of veiw, I lost all respect for them when I realized that they had the means to communicate with the humans (ansible messages) and they didn't act to save their species because of some monumentally stupid attempt to "atone" for their mistakes. While I realize that they may have felt guilty for it, why the hell didn't they just apoligize and surrender, instead of carving up Ender's memories and costing the lives of still more pilots as well as their own by fighting back? Why the hell didn't they at least try to send these images to Ender when they might have acted to save their entire culture? While that didn't ruin the entire book, I did find that a bit of an annoyance.

This is true, however, (I haven't read in a long time) it was only images, not real messages, right? When did Ender realize that the bugger queen was the bugger queen?

[data_link]

This is true, however, (I haven't read in a long time) it was only images, not real messages, right?

Not images so much as experiences - experiences that contained all of the thoughts and feelings of the buggers. These experiences were the source of the book "Hive Queen". Given that they were transmitted by the unhatched pupa of a bugger queen, and given that even before their planet was destroyed, they were probing his innermost thoughts, it is reasonable to assume that they would have been able to transmit those experiences to him earlier. They, being complete experiences, would have contained far more data than simple linguistic communication, and thus would have enabled diplomacy.

When did Ender realize that the bugger queen was the bugger queen?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you mean when did Ender realize that the buggers were a hive mind where only the queens had independent thoughts, that would be when Mazer Rackham told him. If you mean when did he realize that it was the bugger queen that had been mind-fucking him, that would be at the very end of the book, when he finds the unhatched pupa of the last remaining bugger.