wolveraptor wrote:Isn't it worded more vaguely than that? To allow for wiggle room?
"There is no god but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet."
No, you're thinking of the shahada, "la ilaha illallaha wa Muhammadun rasuli llah" translated as "There is no God but God and Mohammed is His Prophet," the pricinipal statement of faith. The 6 articles of faith are Belief in God,belief in all the Prophets and Messengers , belief in the Books sent by God, belief in the Angels, belief in the Day of Judgment and in the Resurrection, and belief in Destiny, or God's Plan for all things,
Except that being a Muslim requires the belief that the Koran is the literal word of God passed on to the Prophet Mohammed via the angel Gabriel. it is one of the 6 articles of belief one must accept to be a Muslim.
How many Muslims do you actually know? Because between "Muslims will blame other Muslims if the US nukes Mecca" and "all Muslims believe in Koranic literalism" I am guessing the number is closer to the zero end of the scale.
The End of Suburbia
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
The obvious backpeddler's retort is this: "Well I believe in the books, but I just don't think they're 100% accurate, due to human error."
Seriously, most moderates tend to ignore the nasty parts of their religion. A christian doesn't go burning the altars of opposing religions, even though the Bible clearly tells him/her to do that.
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
Except that being a Muslim requires the belief that the Koran is the literal word of God passed on to the Prophet Mohammed via the angel Gabriel. it is one of the 6 articles of belief one must accept to be a Muslim.
How many Muslims do you actually know? Because between "Muslims will blame other Muslims if the US nukes Mecca" and "all Muslims believe in Koranic literalism" I am guessing the number is closer to the zero end of the scale.
Living and going to school in NYC, quite a lot. You, OTOH, are woefully ignorant of Islam if you do not know that the belief that the Koran is the literal word of God is one of the cornerstones of traditional Islam
HemlockGrey wrote:How many Muslims do you actually know? Because between "Muslims will blame other Muslims if the US nukes Mecca" and "all Muslims believe in Koranic literalism" I am guessing the number is closer to the zero end of the scale.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he just saying that all Muslims are supposed to believe in Koranic literalism, not that they do? He doesn't need to even know any Muslims to have read about the articles of belief.
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
HemlockGrey wrote:How many Muslims do you actually know? Because between "Muslims will blame other Muslims if the US nukes Mecca" and "all Muslims believe in Koranic literalism" I am guessing the number is closer to the zero end of the scale.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he just saying that all Muslims are supposed to believe in Koranic literalism, not that they do? He doesn't need to even know any Muslims to have read about the articles of belief.
Whoa... Chad, that pic does mke the plane to look like some eerie Angle, what is it shooting?
Some sort of decoy to fool guided missles
Yup, they're flares.
If you remember Airwolf, they always shot out just one flare, which the incoming missile always found more attractive than the silly helicopter.
In Real Life, they launch dozens of flares, thereby dramatically increasing the chance that the missile will pick one of the flares to lock onto, instead of the airplane.
All muslims are required to believe the holy Koran as the exact words of Allah. Claiming human error in the book itself a very bad thing to do for a muslim. However there is room for interpretation. Many things including the exact date of the revealation of the Koran is not clear. So muslims tend to rely on scholars who study it a lot and rely on their opinion. As it usualy happens with humans scholars can disagree sometimes.
And as it happens, most muslims I know know they are supposed to believe the Koran is the exact words of Allah, but that does not mean they actually act on that. Many younger city-bred muslims here drink, for example.
Though none of them will stoop to eating pork just yet...
I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he just saying that all Muslims are supposed to believe in Koranic literalism, not that they do? He doesn't need to even know any Muslims to have read about the articles of belief.
Then I misinterpreted his post to mean that all Muslims are Koranic literalists, which is certainly false.
The End of Suburbia
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
AniThyng wrote:Many younger city-bred muslims here drink, for example.
But isn't there a little bit of wiggle room in that particular commandment? Something to do with being able to drink if it isn't made from grapes or grain? Or was someone just bullshitting me?
...where the hell did I hear that...
The Gentleman from Texas abstains. Discourteously.
PRFYNAFBTFC-Vice Admiral: MFS Masturbating Walrus :: Omine subtilite Odobenus rosmarus masturbari Soy un perdedor.
"WHO POOPED IN A NORMAL ROOM?!"-Commander William T. Riker
Put it this way, if you tried to get into Mecca you can't
If however you dedicated yourself for years on end and were recongized as muslim and then made your way into the mass throng round the stone you could probably not get close enough to touch it for more than a few seconds.
And I tend to think that the few thousand people sitting there would do something if you hauled out your miner's pick and tried to go to town on the stone.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Chmee wrote:I suppose an educated Muslim would just say that their Holy Book had a very early understanding of the law of conservation of mass.
Dear god, you're right. It would just be infinite twisting and flailing. I thought "here we go, a testable prediction!", but you're right, the rules would get broken immediately.
How about putting the shoe on the other foot, lets say the thing IS unscathed... would you convert to Islam?
No, but I'd think our country should get its hands on some of that rock to see what the hell it's made of ....
You think they'll mind? Well, I guess there won't actually be anybody around TO mind in this hypothetical.
yeah but its indestructible, how do you cut it to take a sample?
AniThyng wrote:Many younger city-bred muslims here drink, for example.
But isn't there a little bit of wiggle room in that particular commandment? Something to do with being able to drink if it isn't made from grapes or grain? Or was someone just bullshitting me?
...where the hell did I hear that...
Made from honey, and i heard that from The 13th Warrior, so that's probably not correct
The prohibition is, IIRC, against anything that might cause intoxication. Whatever it is, the general reading implies that drinking is prohibited.
In any case, it is the same logic that most religious people use when they say, wear seatbelts instead of trusting in God to prevent them from being in a car crash - God only helps those who helps themselves, ergo, Divine protection on Mecca is best bestowed with the help of a ABM system
I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character
Utsanomiko wrote:Sure, why not?. Afterall, last I heard you can't attack Mecca because it's "defended by angles".
Accute or obtuse?
riiiiiiiight...
So, who thinks we definitely should not tell the Bush government about the AABM system, for fear of attempts to implement it in the US?
And I thought the Black Rock of the Kaba (my spelling is horrible today, don't mind me) was thought to be meteoric in origin.
Stanley Hauerwas wrote:[W]hy is it that no one is angry at the inequality of income in this country? I mean, the inequality of income is unbelievable. Unbelievable. Why isn’t that ever an issue of politics? Because you don’t live in a democracy. You live in a plutocracy. Money rules.
Well, that would explain how people thought it was a gift from God.
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
I tend to think that on blowing up the Ka'bah your average Muslim would be too busy boiling in murderous rage at the hideous sacrilidge to worry about some obscure Qu'ranic reference like this.
The Stone is actually broken into several pieces, damage which occurred when the stone was stolen in 930 C.E. Ismaili (Qarmatian) warriors sacked Mecca and carried the Black Stone away. It was returned twenty-two years later. In the process, the Black Stone was cracked. It is now held together by a silver band, which is fastened by silver nails to the Stone.
Seggybop wrote:From Wikipedia's article on the Black Stone:
The Stone is actually broken into several pieces, damage which occurred when the stone was stolen in 930 C.E. Ismaili (Qarmatian) warriors sacked Mecca and carried the Black Stone away. It was returned twenty-two years later. In the process, the Black Stone was cracked. It is now held together by a silver band, which is fastened by silver nails to the Stone.
?wtfpwned.
I wonder if there was a large drop in the rate of converts at that time?
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
