ITW:OT Questions

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-07-21 01:33pm

I agree about the KOTOR reference being completly unnecessary, but most of the other stories either take place with the Skywalkers or Jabba. (The only other non-Skywalker/Hutt story I can remember is Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina, and since that concerned its patrons, it was hard to avoid mentioning Tatooine there).

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-07-21 01:36pm

Noble Ire wrote:
Admiral Drason wrote:Ok to put this into real word perspective it like having most of your movies set in a city like New York (Coruscant) vs. having them set in Fort Ripley Mn population 97 (Tatooine).

What are the odds of multiple stories coming out of Shitville USA where the biggest news all year was when Bob the drunk fell off his porch and sprained his knee?
Your missing the point. There are two reasons stuff happens there: The Skywalkers and the Hutts. Both Luke and Anakin come from the place, which would explain at least so of the plots that have them coming back to it (recollecting the past and some such.) As I have said, the Hutts, and their black market, have made the place a hive of black market activity, thus its only natural that stuff would happen there.

Having the Hutts and Anakin come from there was in itself stupid. GL is also guilty. But just because Luke is from there does not justify obsessive returns. What point was there to the Pestage-Tattooine connection? Or any of the other umpteen number things.

Even if a Hutt does set foot and move a bunch of shit in and out of that podunk piece of shit town, then there also in the same hand ought to be the Gotti of Hutts on real planets, compared to which Jabba would be small fry and not so many stories should revolve around such a small-timer anyway.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-07-21 01:37pm

I mean come on did we really have to have that shit hole planet in KOTOR. KOTOR took place far before Luke, Anakin, and even Jabba were farts in the wind.

I'll admit the KOTOR bit was too much. I would have much rather had them flesh out another EU planet, but I suppose we needed "teh Jawaz!"

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-07-21 01:42pm

Having the Hutts and Anakin come from there was in itself stupid. GL is also guilty. But just because Luke is from there does not justify obsessive returns. What point was there to the Pestage-Tattooine connection? Or any of the other umpteen number things.

Even if a Hutt does set foot and move a bunch of shit in and out of that podunk piece of shit town, then there also in the same hand ought to be the Gotti of Hutts on real planets, compared to which Jabba would be small fry and not so many stories should revolve around such a small-timer anyway.

I will admit some connections are unwarranted, but overall, most do make some sense. And yes, it is GL's "fault" for putting Tatooine in ROTJ. But really, does it matter? I mean, he certanly could have placed Jabba on any number of worlds, but he didnt, so we have a justifiable reason to have a bit more stuff happen there in the EU. It may not be a perfect, but it really doesnt bother me. (now if a ton of stuff happened on Hoth, then I would be pissed thank you KJA!...

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2005-07-21 01:58pm

Actually, IMO the Yavin wank in the EU is worse than the Tatooine wank.
Having a remote planet like Yavin be the base for rebels is perfectly fine. But that the Luke would establish the Jedi Academy there, and all the Tales of the Jedi stuff that happens there. Its just not believable. At least with the Yavin wank it can almost totally be blamed on KJA.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2005-07-21 09:34pm

NRS Guardian wrote:Actually, IMO the Yavin wank in the EU is worse than the Tatooine wank.
Having a remote planet like Yavin be the base for rebels is perfectly fine. But that the Luke would establish the Jedi Academy there, and all the Tales of the Jedi stuff that happens there. Its just not believable. At least with the Yavin wank it can almost totally be blamed on KJA.

It's not that bizarre for Luke to establish a new Temple there; it's fairly remote and secluded, he's been there before, there're the big honkin' temples with leftover accomodations from the Rebel base...

I was just annoyed earlier about stuff having nothing to do with Luke/Anakin/Hutts that keeps on coming back to Tatooine...for example, I had just played the aforementioned "get the droid from teh Jawas...oh no, Tuskens!" mission in JKA.

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2005-07-22 01:41am

I found the reference in the SWTJ I was thinking of earlier.

" An unusual concentration of magnetic ores in the planet's mantle, interacting with Tatooine's intense planetary magnetic field, shifts prevailing wind patterns and atmospheric concentrations, creating a zone of relative coolness in one location. While the remainder of the planet reaches highs better than 65.5 C throughout the year, the single temperate zone rarely exceeds 43 C, while reaching nighttime lows near freezing.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-07-22 01:54am

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Having the Hutts and Anakin come from there was in itself stupid. GL is also guilty.

I think Anakin coming from there was necessary from a thematic point. George Lucas obviously had a thing for "the circle" being complete, so he sets up a few similarities between Luke and Anakin's origins and experience. There's also the question of the Lars- what possible reason would Anakin have to know them if he didn't come from Tatooine?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-07-22 03:42am

Vympel wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: Having the Hutts and Anakin come from there was in itself stupid. GL is also guilty.
I think Anakin coming from there was necessary from a thematic point. George Lucas obviously had a thing for "the circle" being complete, so he sets up a few similarities between Luke and Anakin's origins and experience. There's also the question of the Lars- what possible reason would Anakin have to know them if he didn't come from Tatooine?

Anakin similarly being from podunk nowhere and rising to become a hero - only falling as opposed to overcoming - does not require Tattooine. There are a lot of podunk nowheres. Its plain stupid and narratively counterintuitive that the heavily-emphasized irrelevent and shitty Tattooine is the most commonly visited planet in the saga par none.

And on Lars - it doesn't occur to you he could've lived on some other nowhere farming planet? That would've been plainly more comfortable, as opposed to coming up with long-winded post facto explanations for why Vader never groomed his own family for anything on his own homeworld. In fact in the chaos of the Clone Wars, and especially with Luke and what Anakin became, it only makes sense.

And save the counterintuitive or long-winded post facto rationalizations. I am not saying it is impossible or infeasible. What I am saying is the neccessity of those explanations is ipso facto proof that there are failings in the film itself. You shouldn't have to, if it was properly written.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-07-22 03:59am

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Anakin similarly being from podunk nowhere and rising to become a hero - only falling as opposed to overcoming - does not require Tattooine. There are a lot of podunk nowheres. Its plain stupid and narratively counterintuitive that the heavily-emphasized irrelevent and shitty Tattooine is the most commonly visited planet in the saga par none.

I disagree- their coming from the exact same home, rather than two different miscellaneous Planet Bumfucks, just works better for me. Subjective, yes. But I agree on the Hutts.

And on Lars - it doesn't occur to you he could've lived on some other nowhere farming planet?

Who? Lars? If he did, why would he move to Tatooine? Would he even have the means?

That would've been plainly more comfortable, as opposed to coming up with long-winded post facto explanations for why Vader never groomed his own family for anything on his own homeworld. In fact in the chaos of the Clone Wars, and especially with Luke and what Anakin became, it only makes sense.

I don't know what you mean.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-07-22 03:59am

Well that's just tough shit, IP.

Really, I don't know what else to tell you other than that it's just a commen trend in fiction of any quality to recycle certain locations.

Personally, I just don't see it as that big of a deal, perhaps because I frankly don't give that much of a damn.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2005-07-22 09:27am

NRS Guardian wrote:

Actually, IMO the Yavin wank in the EU is worse than the Tatooine wank.
Having a remote planet like Yavin be the base for rebels is perfectly fine. But that the Luke would establish the Jedi Academy there, and all the Tales of the Jedi stuff that happens there. Its just not believable. At least with the Yavin wank it can almost totally be blamed on KJA.

Let's not forget the Clone Wars episode that takes place on Yavin as well. I mean come on if the Jedi counsil knows that about those Sith Temples and artifacts...why oh why would they leave them standing... Really Anakin could have dueled with Ventress on any random planet. Plus we're left with the conclusion that Munnilist and Yavin must be pretty close to each other given the timeframe of the episode. Wank indeed.

On the Tatoonie thing, I gotta agree with IP, how many times have people other than Luke or Anakin said shit like its hotter than a "noon on tatooine" when given the number of planets in the Galaxy they should never have even heard of the planet. "Colder that a Hoth moon" give me a break; that is simply bad writing.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-07-22 11:03am

On the Tatoonie thing, I gotta agree with IP, how many times have people other than Luke or Anakin said shit like its hotter than a "noon on tatooine" when given the number of planets in the Galaxy they should never have even heard of the planet. "Colder that a Hoth moon" give me a break; that is simply bad writing.

I always rationalized those literary terms as existing because of the strong Hutt influence on the planet. The Hutts and their organization's are fairly notorious the galaxy throughout, and its entirely possible at some point, there was a bit of a cult around them (like the gangsta culture of today.) If this is the case, and Tatooine is a fairly prominent world, then those interested in the Hutts who study the world might have picked up some of its terminology.

Yes, its quite a strech, but I like to rationalize. And some of it is just bad writing, to be sure.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-07-22 11:39am

Vympel wrote:Who? Lars? If he did, why would he move to Tatooine? Would he even have the means?

Why? Because his adopted son is the progeny of the fucking Dark Lord of the Sith. That's a pretty big fucking incentive.

And who says moving is all that difficult, or that whether it was comfortable or not really mattered? Possible death and capture are huge incentives which overwhelm other things.

Vympel wrote:I don't know what you mean.

How many times do we bend over backward to explain why they hid Luke on Anakin's homeworld amongst his static family on the same fucking homestead? It really is pretty stupid, and if it was written well, we wouldn't have to.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-07-22 11:41am

Noble Ire wrote:
On the Tatoonie thing, I gotta agree with IP, how many times have people other than Luke or Anakin said shit like its hotter than a "noon on tatooine" when given the number of planets in the Galaxy they should never have even heard of the planet. "Colder that a Hoth moon" give me a break; that is simply bad writing.
I always rationalized those literary terms as existing because of the strong Hutt influence on the planet. The Hutts and their organization's are fairly notorious the galaxy throughout, and its entirely possible at some point, there was a bit of a cult around them (like the gangsta culture of today.) If this is the case, and Tatooine is a fairly prominent world, then those interested in the Hutts who study the world might have picked up some of its terminology.

Yes, its quite a strech, but I like to rationalize. And some of it is just bad writing, to be sure.

This is all fucking stupid. There is one minor Hutt who set up shop there momentarily, like druggies setting up meth labs in rural Indiana or some shit. The Hutt hubs are places like Ylesia and Nal Hutta/Nar Shaddaa. And if there was some "thug culture" around giant fucking slugs - which I remind you is an open fabrication - it'll revolve around the latter, not fucking Tattooine.

Tiger Ace · Post by **Tiger Ace** » 2005-07-22 11:45am

Minor hutt? EU contradicts you saying Jabba was one of the bigger crime lords.
Ylesia was fucking Peace brigade, not Hutt space.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-07-22 11:54am

well sometimes the best place to hide is right under someone's nose...

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-07-22 12:02pm

Tiger Ace wrote: Ylesia was fucking Peace brigade, not Hutt space.

The Han Solo trilogy has a hutt cartel in competition with Desilijic (Jabba's after he takes it over from his predecesor) run a major gliterstim mining operation there with pilgrims being used as slaves, the rebelion and Han trash the place at the end of the trilogy.
Afterwards, the hutt's must have abandoned the place leaving it open for the peace brigade.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-07-22 12:09pm

Tiger Ace wrote:Minor hutt? EU contradicts you saying Jabba was one of the bigger crime lords.
Ylesia was fucking Peace brigade, not Hutt space.

You are a fucking moron. And aside, even if Jabba was such a major lord - which I'm not so sure about - that itself is stupid. A mafia don making it big doesn't move to the 200 population podunk town to hole up. That's stupid.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-07-22 12:12pm

Tiger Ace wrote:Minor hutt? EU contradicts you saying Jabba was one of the bigger crime lords.
Ylesia was fucking Peace brigade, not Hutt space.

Peace Brigade was based out of Hutt space you nitwit.

Tiger Ace · Post by **Tiger Ace** » 2005-07-22 01:36pm

Woops, just noticed Ylesia is inside the NJO hutt space map.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2005-07-22 01:54pm

Noble Ire wrote:

I always rationalized those literary terms as existing because of the strong Hutt influence on the planet. The Hutts and their organization's are fairly notorious the galaxy throughout, and its entirely possible at some point, there was a bit of a cult around them (like the gangsta culture of today.) If this is the case, and Tatooine is a fairly prominent world, then those interested in the Hutts who study the world might have picked up some of its terminology.

That's a pretty big stretch if you ask me. As for the 'gangsta' culture thing. I would say Black Sun would be the criminal organization of choice for most. Cool ass sounding name? Check. High level imperial connections? Check. Can a any species become a impoertant leader of the organization? Check. Yes, I think I would pass on being some 2 ton slug's flunkie.

Tiger Ace wrote:

Minor hutt? EU contradicts you saying Jabba was one of the bigger crime lords.

What EU would that be. The Hutts run their space but the rest of the galaxy was Black Suns turf. Jabba was operating out on th Rim, well beyond Hutt space. So, you can bet your sweet ass, he was probably paying tribute to the local Black Sun Vigo as well as the local Moff. Jabba had some connection; those primarily him being related to some of the bigger crime bosses on Nal Hutta. But no way was him big time. After his death total holdings were not very impressive. Jabba had nothing like 'Shell Hutt' money.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-07-22 02:21pm

For the record, the "Hutt culture" thing was a huge, huge strech, and I don't really believe it myself. Just trying to keep up SOD.

What EU would that be. The Hutts run their space but the rest of the galaxy was Black Suns turf. Jabba was operating out on th Rim, well beyond Hutt space. So, you can bet your sweet ass, he was probably paying tribute to the local Black Sun Vigo as well as the local Moff. Jabba had some connection; those primarily him being related to some of the bigger crime bosses on Nal Hutta. But no way was him big time. After his death total holdings were not very impressive. Jabba had nothing like 'Shell Hutt' money.

It should be noted that the Black Sun almost completely collapsed after Xizor died, none of his sucessors were unable to hold it together, and the Hutts absorbed many of its supply lines and took over its smuggling rings. As a side note, Tatooine actually became more of a hive for criminal activity after Jabba died, and not just Hutt (Survivors Quest.)

You are a fucking moron. And aside, even if Jabba was such a major lord - which I'm not so sure about - that itself is stupid. A mafia don making it big doesn't move to the 200 population podunk town to hole up. That's stupid.

Jabba was an egomanic. He wanted to be on a planet that he could pretty much control, and on Tatooine, he could do that.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-07-22 10:21pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Why? Because his adopted son is the progeny of the fucking Dark Lord of the Sith. That's a pretty big fucking incentive.

Ah k I see where you're coming from, that works.

How many times do we bend over backward to explain why they hid Luke on Anakin's homeworld amongst his static family on the same fucking homestead? It really is pretty stupid, and if it was written well, we wouldn't have to.

I've never had a problem with it, honestly. Vader thinks his children are dead, and the apprentice to the Emperor has no reason to go to Tatooine at all. It's hardly bending over backwards.