California school district to "affirm" Ebonics

[Falkenhayn]

When and why did they stop teaching grammar in the American educational system as a subject all its own?

[Jalinth]

No. I also don't see any schools treating these as languages rather than improper grammar which is not to be used in English class.

According to the school board sbcusd.k12.ca.us/new/19/uploads/NR04-0506.pdf they aren't teaching Ebonics. Unfortunately, the "policy" they include is full of so much verbose bureaucratic bullshit that I can't tell what they are trying to say. What the hell does "culturally relevant pedagogy" mean? I think we need to start a mandatory course of English for education majors as a first step.

The open question which can't be answered (see the above link for why) is how Ebonics is being used. Is it being taught (which is a major problem) or is it being used as part of a "Standard English as a Second Dialect" type of instruction, which would be a sad statement on the community, but a good idea for the students.

[fgalkin]

No. I also don't see any schools treating these as languages rather than improper grammar which is not to be used in English class.

According to the school board sbcusd.k12.ca.us/new/19/uploads/NR04-0506.pdf they aren't teaching Ebonics. Unfortunately, the "policy" they include is full of so much verbose bureaucratic bullshit that I can't tell what they are trying to say. What the hell does "culturally relevant pedagogy" mean? I think we need to start a mandatory course of English for education majors as a first step.

The open question which can't be answered (see the above link for why) is how Ebonics is being used. Is it being taught (which is a major problem) or is it being used as part of a "Standard English as a Second Dialect" type of instruction, which would be a sad statement on the community, but a good idea for the students.

I think they're not teaching Ebonics. They're teaching in Ebonics.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[18-Till-I-Die]

It sounds, to me, like English is a second language. But like Jalinth said it's kind of hard to tell. I doubt they're teaching in Ebonics since that would prove quite impossible. But i may be wrong.

For the recond, i dont think they should teach Ebonics, most people including me picked it up just from being around people, and i dont think it would be possible to teach in Ebonics. However teaching English to kids who normally speak purely in Ebonics sounds like a perfectly valid strategy and most likely wont cause any huge waves. It'll probably, most certainly, help them since they'll learn to speak proper English in situations where it will be nessesary and speak tehir own dialect where appropriate.

[Wicked Pilot]

I seriously doubt that their teachers speak "ebonics", or that their school textbooks are written using it.

No but that's what some people seem to be pushing for.

[Pick]

It's a school's resoponsibility to equip the students with basic, necessary job --or at least life-- skills. That's what it exists for. Catering to what I'll argueably call a dialect is retroactive toward the school's greater goal, because continuing to speak in a way that will actively prevent the student's success should not be condoned by the school as an effective teaching method.

[wolveraptor]

The problem with Ebonics is that those who speak in it can generally understand people who speak in other, widely used (among...uh, the educated; oh let's be honest, you don't see college professors going, "Fuck dis shit y'all. I'ma take mah bitch up tuh duh ho-tel, niggaz.") dialects, but non-Ebonics-speakers can't always understand the rap vernacular. Were I an employer, I probably would have a sub-conscious bias against someone whom I could barely understand, and if the job involved PR, that someone would be finished.

[18-Till-I-Die]

The problem with Ebonics is that those who speak in it can generally understand people who speak in other, widely used (among...uh, the educated; oh let's be honest, you don't see college professors going, "Fuck dis shit y'all. I'ma take mah bitch up tuh duh ho-tel, niggaz.")

And you know how people talk, when not at work, or to their friends...by what form of omniscience?

Look when i'm serious, or writing, i usually talk with the best approximation of proper English as i can. When i'm with my family, friends, or dont care i speak like what i would consider to be my 'normal' vernacular, which is Ebonics. Now, i just simply dont think, and i dont think you really do either, that people dont speak Ebonics with their friends, family, in their comfortable environment and speak proper, or close to it, English when 'out'.

Thing is some kids dont know real proper English and there is nothing wrong with teaching it to them. Everyone is just getting their panty's in a bunch and turning their nose up cause "ZOMG!!1!! RAP IZ T3H EVAL!1!!!" or some shit that, lets be honest, so-called 'smart' people and conservitives seem to think is important to harp on all the time.

And if you listen, you'll hear the herd of people charging to say i'm just saying this cause im Black. In fact i think there is nothing wrong with for example imigrants continuing to speak their own language/dialect/whatever and speaking English as a second language. And what REALLY erks me is this is the same terminology of distain that are used by the "Speak English or get out of my country" crowd, who i cant stand.

[Darth Wong]

Anybody care to explain precisely how we're supposed to tailor English classes to "Ebonics-only speakers" (read: illiterate morons)?

Why not simply teach them proper English like everyone else? How many people are there who speak "Ebonics" but actually don't understand normal English? Are there black guys waddling up to the teller at Wendy's in their knee-hanger underwear-dragger pants and oversized untied shoes who can't figure out what she means when she says "would you like fries with that?"

Are they going to equip teachers with Ebonics to English translation dictionaries? Will they send English teachers away from Ebonics training? Will "can you direct me to the railroad station" be translated to "grab muh ass, yo"?

[18-Till-I-Die]

Well i know for a fact, some people who can understand English that only knwo how to communicate in Ebonics. It's easy to make light of, but one could just as easily make light of cockney or people with accents, it's not like it'll kill anyone to acknowledge a difference here and teach them how to speak in proper English.

Also you obviously dont know what Ebonics sounds like since 'grab muh ass yo' would probably get someone to laugh at you, as it means nothing. There are words in Ebonics, and ways it's used, despite what you might think it isnt some random slang anymore it's actually evolved into a real dialect.

Again this is not some huge problem, it'll probably help the kids to learn proper English as a second language despite being able to understand it, and the only issue is people who stick their nose up at everything they deem 'low-class' and go "OH NOES! Ebonics is teh EVAL!!" and run around acting like the world is ending when, really, it's hardly even an issue.

There are kids, again i know i've met them, who speak English only when they need to, some speak Spanish or some ME dialect, and they're learning English as a second language. And people act like they're evil terrorists or something cause, "This is OUR land, learn to speak the language foreign dog!" and it's mind numbingly retarded hwo people react to them speaking their own dialects and languages like some harm is being done. I've seen people tell kids like "Speak English when you're around me!" like they have to or something! To say the least i see no problem, shit my girlfriend's grandmother, barely speaks a word of English in her home or to her friends and family, only uses it when she needs to. Doesnt bother me. Ebonics shouldnt bother anyone either, as long as kids also learn to speak English when needed. One should remember, America doesnt have an 'official' language.

[Darth Wong]

Well i know for a fact, some people who can understand English that only knwo how to communicate in Ebonics. It's easy to make light of, but one could just as easily make light of cockney or people with accents, it's not like it'll kill anyone to acknowledge a difference here and teach them how to speak in proper English.

And precisely what kind of special assistance would they need to speak English? Every goddamned TV show and movie uses proper English; do these people exclusively watch rap music videos? Sorry, but there's only so much that you can chalk up to cultural identity in America. There's no way somebody can be totally isolated from mainstream English in America unless he does it to himself, on purpose.

Also you obviously dont know what Ebonics sounds like

And I feel just awful about that, I assure you

"OH NOES! Ebonics is teh EVAL!!"

Nobody is saying that, moron. What I'm saying is "Ebonics is teh STUPID", which it is.

There are kids, again i know i've met them, who speak English only when they need to, some speak Spanish or some ME dialect, and they're learning English as a second language. And people act like they're evil terrorists or something cause, "This is OUR land, learn to speak the language foreign dog!"

Yet again, you seem to confuse "stupid and illiterate" with "evil". You shouldn't be lecturing people about any subject related to English when you apparently don't understand the fucking language yourself.

Nobody can escape exposure to standard English in America unless he does it to himself on purpose, and there's no excuse for that, no matter how hard you try to concoct one.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Cry me a river, 18. "They only speak English when they need to"? Newsflash! You're going to have to speak English if your employer doesn't cater to "Ebonicans". Oh, wait, that's right, Ebonics isn't even a real language, like, say, Spanish- it's just a pointless and silly vernacular spoken by people who don't care enough about their own racial background enough to stop promoting negative stereotypes- or people who think such stereotypical behavior is "ware itz at".

[Edi]

Nobody can escape exposure to standard English in America unless he does it to himself on purpose, and there's no excuse for that, no matter how hard you try to concoct one.

Mike, I don't think he is saying anything to really contradict this. Seems more like he is generally agreeing with you but has an issue with people taking offense at immigrants, minorities or other groups speaking something other than standard English among themselves. Interacting outside their own little group, they indeed have no excuse.

Edi

[Castor Troy]

The scary part is that they're actually serious...

Teaching the mutation and bastardisation of the English language, in a school, is just making things down the road more of a hastle.