Heh.
Mine's on the way.
[quagmire] Heh heh. Alright.[/quagmire]
GTA :SA has ESRB rating changed to 18+
Moderator: Thanas
Just thought I'd throw in a link here.
GTANet.com - ESRB Ratings Explained
It's sarcastic, but does bring up the valid point. The unmodified Hot Coffee mod has less nudity in it than the porn missions in Vice City. And yet somehow San Andreas gets the AO? And just what does the AO rating involve?
Blood and gore
Intense Violence
Strong language
Strong Sexual content
Use of drugs
Nudity
What did the M rating contain? All of the above, minus the nudity. And yet, in the unmodified version (ie, the minigame Rockstar left in there), you see less skin than you did in Vice City. The only way to get nudity is to actively modify the game's graphics files to do so.
So, can someone please tell me how the ESRB can justify the Nudity (and thus, the AO rating) warning? Since it is not part of the game (the sex game, yes, but not the nude girlfriend models)! Hell, using this as a precedent, any game where you could ever modify the files to have nude characters in it should get the rating. Which is to say, just about any PC game released that features human-like character models.
And to further show the stupidty, check the bottom of the list on the ESRB's website here. Quest For Glory Anthology. Which includes the game Quest For Glory 2. You know what you could do? As an easter egg (a freaking easter egg, not a modification) you can check out the Evil Full Frontal Nudity of a harem girl. It's hardly great detail, yet it's there. I guess the ESRB somehow missed a feature that was already there. Idiots.
Fixed the broken link
~Faram
GTANet.com - ESRB Ratings Explained
It's sarcastic, but does bring up the valid point. The unmodified Hot Coffee mod has less nudity in it than the porn missions in Vice City. And yet somehow San Andreas gets the AO? And just what does the AO rating involve?
Blood and gore
Intense Violence
Strong language
Strong Sexual content
Use of drugs
Nudity
What did the M rating contain? All of the above, minus the nudity. And yet, in the unmodified version (ie, the minigame Rockstar left in there), you see less skin than you did in Vice City. The only way to get nudity is to actively modify the game's graphics files to do so.
So, can someone please tell me how the ESRB can justify the Nudity (and thus, the AO rating) warning? Since it is not part of the game (the sex game, yes, but not the nude girlfriend models)! Hell, using this as a precedent, any game where you could ever modify the files to have nude characters in it should get the rating. Which is to say, just about any PC game released that features human-like character models.
And to further show the stupidty, check the bottom of the list on the ESRB's website here. Quest For Glory Anthology. Which includes the game Quest For Glory 2. You know what you could do? As an easter egg (a freaking easter egg, not a modification) you can check out the Evil Full Frontal Nudity of a harem girl. It's hardly great detail, yet it's there. I guess the ESRB somehow missed a feature that was already there. Idiots.
Fixed the broken link
~Faram
"Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." - Midori Koto
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Spanky The Dolphin
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Hell in Max Payne 2, it's possible to move the camera around to peek at your partner while she's naked in the shower, without any sort of mod or code.
Regarding SA, could the actual depicted sex itself come into factoring thr AO rating?
Regarding SA, could the actual depicted sex itself come into factoring thr AO rating?
I believe in a sign of Zeta.
[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]
"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
In theory, yes. If so it's pretty damn stupid and a weak excuse, as they're all fully clothed anyway. But yes, they could say that (a greater degree of the Strong Sexual Content warning they had already provided under it's M rating?).Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Hell in Max Payne 2, it's possible to move the camera around to peek at your partner while she's naked in the shower, without any sort of mod or code.
Regarding SA, could the actual depicted sex itself come into factoring thr AO rating?
Still, the Nudity warning in the current AO label is bullshit, regardless.
"Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." - Midori Koto
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Spanky The Dolphin
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Well the ESRB's explenations actually differentiate M's sexual content and AO's graphic sexual content.
http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp#symbols
http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp#symbols
The only real difference is that it says "graphic" sexual content (the nudity is a nonissue). That's pretty debatable as to how "graphic" the sex scenes are. In my opinion, they're hardly graphic - two people having "sex" while still fully clothed? Gimmie a break. But I don't work for the ESRB. Like I said, they could justify it on that alone, but I still think it'd be a very weak justification. The biggest wiggle room I see is also the "prolonged" element (since it's connected with the whole and/or thing). Still, it's prolonged graphical sexual content, so that still relies on how graphic it really is.Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Well the ESRB's explenations actually differentiate M's sexual content and AO's graphic sexual content.
http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp#symbols
Nonetheless they should still have to take the Nudity provision out of the warning.
I think it'll be more telling to see what becomes of the incident over The Sims/Sims 2. Since none of them has ever garnered a rating higher than Teen, and the nudity is a part of the game that can be unlocked via an in-game command, as opposed to actually modifying the game's graphic files. If San Andreas gets a Nudity label, then so should The Sims. If it doesn't, then it is total bullshit on the ESRB's part. But we'll just have to wait and see on that count.
"Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." - Midori Koto
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Vicious Enigma
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I actually wrote an article about it the day it happened for a section called "Shout Out" in a magazine called "Computer Games", not sure if it's being put in though. Check it out:
----Begin Article----
The Rating Witch Hunt:
Well it seems politicians finally found their “Witch” and burned it at the stake so to speak. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has now been deemed a "Adults Only 18+" (AO) rating after the “Coffee” mod that lets you see, well, more then you need too got the game a lot of attention by the media then by concerned parents and politicians. The files are in the game but were removed but still left on in the game data, this mod let you unlock them. Rockstar is getting ready to release a patch to block the mod from working.
Well I'm all for not letting kids get a hold of violent, sex filled….etc games but I have one very big problem and I think most people would agree. Why are politicians and parents mad at Rockstar for this?
Why are kids under 17 (the original age requirement of the game when it was M rated) even playing these games? Shouldn’t parents being doing better jobs? For instance my cousins (15 and 13) parents were sickened when they seen me play GTA:Vice City and I was hitting a cop with a baseball bat (Only weapon I had) yet on GTA:SA’s release they bought them all of the GTA games! They have the “Coffee” mod and now they are mad at Rockstar and want their money back. Why? You bought a game your kids shouldn’t be playing! I know there are always some circumstances like an older brother bought it and the little brother snuck in a few play sessions and what not. That’s a little hard to control but for the most part parents don’t seem to care or know what to do when buying games.
Another thing this “Adult” rating does is make anyone that wants to buy an AO game look bad. Imagine you’re at a store that has the game, which most won’t sell it now because it’s AO, and you grab it and a mother is there with her young son and she sees you. Imagine what she thinks, “That man is buying an adult game, what a pervert”. “Adult” sounds bad, people associate “Adult” with things like Porn and other things. Its ashame we have to feel like lower life forms and avoid others to buy a game that’s rated AO now.
Yet another thing that comes into play now is I fear this will turn into a witch hunt. What’s next on the AO witch hunt? Saints Row? 25 To Life? The Sims series is one I’m sure they are looking at. There are lots of “Adult” things you can do to modify that game. And that game is an all around “family” friendly game! Half-Life 2 had a recent “Adult” thing added to it by a sicko on the net. Any game can be turned into an “Adult” game.
I guess it was going to come to this eventually with games but there is something that a lot of people and by people I mean those that do not game don’t get. Gamers aren’t generally kids anymore. I’ve read lots of research articles about the average age of gamers and it seems that around 1986(Time of NES) the average gamer age was 10, around 1993 it was 14-15 and now the average seems to be mixed around 23-26. Games today are pushing more for adults then kids, not that I’m saying they all have to be “M” this and “M” that but games are considered “Kids toys” still even though things have changed and politicians and parents seem to think games shouldn’t even be “M” or have anything even like GTA’s standards in them (Not that we all play kill, kill, kill games all the time). They think they should be less violent, less everything more so they were “T” rated. And that’s really not fair because no one should tell another gamer how to live their lifestyle, more so seeing as how most gamers are adults now.
Parents should be more worried about their own kids and more to the point they should learn to read the ratings on games and ask questions. Don’t let your kid tell you “This game is ok, don’t worry about the demon with the bloody head hanging out of his mouth” or “That half naked girl isn’t really in the game, she’s just on the cover to make the box look cool”. There is the rating label in the back of a game box that tells you what is in each game. And if you don’t get it still there are lots of sites on the internet that tell you about each game in detail from a games swear level to its gore level to even how educational it is! I’ve given away lots of sites to people that don’t know what to give their kids because they are concerned about what’s in it.
As for this “Adults” rating witch hunt. I hope it ends with this GTA:SA. Most games can be modified to have “Adult” things like skins, models…well anything really. Are we going to just start rating all games “AO” because the possibility is always there? People are always going to make bad things to download and there’s always a risk a kid is going to get it. Even if a game is “K-A” it’s probably moddable so you can make it dirty. Unfortunately that’s not the games fault; games are made to be that way to extend its life and to make it more fun. But for now hopefully politicians wont look at that and start changing games ratings because “The threat is out there”. It’s really not fair to ruin it for everyone when some people just need more help on being educated about games.
In the case of Rockstar the content was there and someone took the chance to unlock it, so both people were at fault.
<My name which I wont post is here>
----End Article----
----Begin Article----
The Rating Witch Hunt:
Well it seems politicians finally found their “Witch” and burned it at the stake so to speak. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has now been deemed a "Adults Only 18+" (AO) rating after the “Coffee” mod that lets you see, well, more then you need too got the game a lot of attention by the media then by concerned parents and politicians. The files are in the game but were removed but still left on in the game data, this mod let you unlock them. Rockstar is getting ready to release a patch to block the mod from working.
Well I'm all for not letting kids get a hold of violent, sex filled….etc games but I have one very big problem and I think most people would agree. Why are politicians and parents mad at Rockstar for this?
Why are kids under 17 (the original age requirement of the game when it was M rated) even playing these games? Shouldn’t parents being doing better jobs? For instance my cousins (15 and 13) parents were sickened when they seen me play GTA:Vice City and I was hitting a cop with a baseball bat (Only weapon I had) yet on GTA:SA’s release they bought them all of the GTA games! They have the “Coffee” mod and now they are mad at Rockstar and want their money back. Why? You bought a game your kids shouldn’t be playing! I know there are always some circumstances like an older brother bought it and the little brother snuck in a few play sessions and what not. That’s a little hard to control but for the most part parents don’t seem to care or know what to do when buying games.
Another thing this “Adult” rating does is make anyone that wants to buy an AO game look bad. Imagine you’re at a store that has the game, which most won’t sell it now because it’s AO, and you grab it and a mother is there with her young son and she sees you. Imagine what she thinks, “That man is buying an adult game, what a pervert”. “Adult” sounds bad, people associate “Adult” with things like Porn and other things. Its ashame we have to feel like lower life forms and avoid others to buy a game that’s rated AO now.
Yet another thing that comes into play now is I fear this will turn into a witch hunt. What’s next on the AO witch hunt? Saints Row? 25 To Life? The Sims series is one I’m sure they are looking at. There are lots of “Adult” things you can do to modify that game. And that game is an all around “family” friendly game! Half-Life 2 had a recent “Adult” thing added to it by a sicko on the net. Any game can be turned into an “Adult” game.
I guess it was going to come to this eventually with games but there is something that a lot of people and by people I mean those that do not game don’t get. Gamers aren’t generally kids anymore. I’ve read lots of research articles about the average age of gamers and it seems that around 1986(Time of NES) the average gamer age was 10, around 1993 it was 14-15 and now the average seems to be mixed around 23-26. Games today are pushing more for adults then kids, not that I’m saying they all have to be “M” this and “M” that but games are considered “Kids toys” still even though things have changed and politicians and parents seem to think games shouldn’t even be “M” or have anything even like GTA’s standards in them (Not that we all play kill, kill, kill games all the time). They think they should be less violent, less everything more so they were “T” rated. And that’s really not fair because no one should tell another gamer how to live their lifestyle, more so seeing as how most gamers are adults now.
Parents should be more worried about their own kids and more to the point they should learn to read the ratings on games and ask questions. Don’t let your kid tell you “This game is ok, don’t worry about the demon with the bloody head hanging out of his mouth” or “That half naked girl isn’t really in the game, she’s just on the cover to make the box look cool”. There is the rating label in the back of a game box that tells you what is in each game. And if you don’t get it still there are lots of sites on the internet that tell you about each game in detail from a games swear level to its gore level to even how educational it is! I’ve given away lots of sites to people that don’t know what to give their kids because they are concerned about what’s in it.
As for this “Adults” rating witch hunt. I hope it ends with this GTA:SA. Most games can be modified to have “Adult” things like skins, models…well anything really. Are we going to just start rating all games “AO” because the possibility is always there? People are always going to make bad things to download and there’s always a risk a kid is going to get it. Even if a game is “K-A” it’s probably moddable so you can make it dirty. Unfortunately that’s not the games fault; games are made to be that way to extend its life and to make it more fun. But for now hopefully politicians wont look at that and start changing games ratings because “The threat is out there”. It’s really not fair to ruin it for everyone when some people just need more help on being educated about games.
In the case of Rockstar the content was there and someone took the chance to unlock it, so both people were at fault.
<My name which I wont post is here>
----End Article----
:CLICK: Argh!!! So many idiots, so little ammo.
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DPDarkPrimus
- Emperor's Hand
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- Contact:
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Vicious Enigma
- Redshirt
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Actually is there such a thing? Word does spelling and grammer but obviously I sometimes mess up words like "Too" and "To". So Word doesnt pick up on it.
Is there a program that picks up on those kind of mistakes? It would be usefull for me! I suck at grammer!
Is there a program that picks up on those kind of mistakes? It would be usefull for me! I suck at grammer!
:CLICK: Argh!!! So many idiots, so little ammo.
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DPDarkPrimus
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"Useful". And no, I don't know of any programs that will check that. The grammar checks in Microsoft Word are usually wrong, anyways. They never let me use a semi-colon when I'm supposed to, but they keep suggesting it when I don't need one. 
Just get a human proof-reader.
But on topic-
Is it me, or will this occur:
Rockstar re-releases San Andreas with the Hot Coffee code removed, for an M rating.
Modders make a full mod to have the Hot Coffee playable again.
Rockstar has to make the game AO until they can disable the mod.
Rockstar re-releases San Andreas for an M rating.
Modders make a full mod to have Hot Coffee playable again.
...
Just get a human proof-reader.
But on topic-
Is it me, or will this occur:
Rockstar re-releases San Andreas with the Hot Coffee code removed, for an M rating.
Modders make a full mod to have the Hot Coffee playable again.
Rockstar has to make the game AO until they can disable the mod.
Rockstar re-releases San Andreas for an M rating.
Modders make a full mod to have Hot Coffee playable again.
...
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest
"Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest
"Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
That's possible. I've seen a basic reworking of Vice City made into GTA3. And they changed quite a bit of some of the game's restrictions (like the altitude limiter for the choppers, or so I'm told; I never got it to work). And it's not like the original Hot Coffee minigame code is lost forever considering how many copies of the game are out there now.DPDarkPrimus wrote:But on topic-
Is it me, or will this occur:
Rockstar re-releases San Andreas with the Hot Coffee code removed, for an M rating.
Modders make a full mod to have the Hot Coffee playable again.
Rockstar has to make the game AO until they can disable the mod.
Rockstar re-releases San Andreas for an M rating.
Modders make a full mod to have Hot Coffee playable again.
...
I don't see it as likely though. Sure, someone could do it, but since the creator of the Hot Coffee mods withdrew the files from general circulation of his own accord, and given the rather controversial nature of it, the mod probably won't see widespread use.
Or it could as a "Fuck you!" to the ESRB, Hillary Clinton, soccer moms, etc. It would be damned stupid of the ESRB to up the rating yet again, though. Otherwise every game should get the AO rating the minute someone mods some nudity and/or sex (even if it's as simple as a cutscene stolen from some porno vid) into it.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
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DPDarkPrimus
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But it's retarded. You can mod "Adults Only" content into practically anything.RogueIce wrote:That's possible.DPDarkPrimus wrote:But on topic-
Is it me, or will this occur:
Rockstar re-releases San Andreas with the Hot Coffee code removed, for an M rating.
Modders make a full mod to have the Hot Coffee playable again.
Rockstar has to make the game AO until they can disable the mod.
Rockstar re-releases San Andreas for an M rating.
Modders make a full mod to have Hot Coffee playable again.
...
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest
"Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest
"Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
I never said it was smart or reasonable, just that it could happen. Sadly.DPDarkPrimus wrote:But it's retarded. You can mod "Adults Only" content into practically anything.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
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DPDarkPrimus
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Well, I highly anticipate the day when every single PC game is assigned the "AO" rating, and these morons are forced to see what has been wrought.RogueIce wrote:I never said it was smart or reasonable, just that it could happen. Sadly.DPDarkPrimus wrote:But it's retarded. You can mod "Adults Only" content into practically anything.
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest
"Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest
"Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
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DrkHelmet
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I can see it now. Dateline NBC: "90% of all video games are given the 'Adults Only' rating. Video games are the DEBIL!"DPDarkPrimus wrote:Well, I highly anticipate the day when every single PC game is assigned the "AO" rating, and these morons are forced to see what has been wrought.RogueIce wrote:I never said it was smart or reasonable, just that it could happen. Sadly.DPDarkPrimus wrote:But it's retarded. You can mod "Adults Only" content into practically anything.
Eh, as has been said elsewhere, the ESRB overreaching and giving out AO title like candy could be a good thing for games like GTA and FPSes. If they're gonna get an AO over some inane bullshit anyway, why not go for broke and earn it the old fashioned way? It's not like it'll make a difference.DPDarkPrimus wrote:Well, I highly anticipate the day when every single PC game is assigned the "AO" rating, and these morons are forced to see what has been wrought.RogueIce wrote:I never said it was smart or reasonable, just that it could happen. Sadly.DPDarkPrimus wrote:But it's retarded. You can mod "Adults Only" content into practically anything.
And note I'm speaking mostly for greater and greater amounts of senseless violence as opposed to GTA: Porn City.
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight