Urgent: examples needed for christian terrorists

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-07-27 08:56am

I'm debating with a guy who says terrorism is only a problem in Islam. Who can me provide links/examples that this isnt the case (like this "Army of God" bombing abortion clinics)

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-07-27 09:02am

Take a look at the IRA.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-07-27 09:12am

Yes but the IRA is protestant right? This guy is more like "sure christian fundies are pretty bad but at least they don't hurt a fly".

Post by **Gandalf** » 2005-07-27 09:16am

I thought the IRA were Catholic. The English were Protestants.

Or have I got it backwards?

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-07-27 09:19am

The IRA are Catholic.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-07-27 09:27am

Imperial Overlord wrote:The IRA are Catholic.

oops, my bad. Excellent example than

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-07-27 09:57am

Found 2 more examples in Sudan and Uganda so that should do it. This topic may be closed

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-07-27 10:06am

wautd wrote:Yes but the IRA is protestant right? This guy is more like "sure christian fundies are pretty bad but at least they don't hurt a fly".

Newsflash: Protestants are Christians, even though as someone else pointed out the IRA is Catholic. Give him examples of pro-life abortion clinic bombers as well. They're typically considered terrorists.

Fleet Admiral JD · Post by **Fleet Admiral JD** » 2005-07-27 10:07am

KKKs were Christians, were they not?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-07-27 10:13am

Fleet Admiral JD wrote:KKKs were Christians, were they not?

Well, the KKK still exists, but their numbers and popularity have shrunk to the point where they're not even considered newsworthy anymore, except as a joke. But basically, yeah, they're technically a Christian terrorist group.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2005-07-27 10:26am

General Zod wrote:
wautd wrote:Yes but the IRA is protestant right? This guy is more like "sure christian fundies are pretty bad but at least they don't hurt a fly".
Newsflash: Protestants are Christians, even though as someone else pointed out the IRA is Catholic. Give him examples of pro-life abortion clinic bombers as well. They're typically considered terrorists.

Don't forget the UVF and the UFF, Protestant counterparts in Northern Ireland to the Catholic IRA. Those groups are all terrorists.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2005-07-27 10:34am

I should add though, that religion does not seem to be the primary motivator among Northern Ireland's terrorists. True, they have divided along religious lines. But the IRA are more militant Irish nationalists than they are Catholics -- they are probably just Catholics by default, as that is the religion of the overwhelming majority of Ireland's population. Similarly, the UVF and UFF are more British loyalists than they are Protestants, and are Presbyterians because their community is Presbyterian. So their motivations are primarily militant Irish nationalism vs. militant British loyalism, and the religious aspect is almost entirely incidental. Muslim terrorists, on the other hand, are definitely primarily motivated by religion. The IRA wants to break Ulster loose from the UK, and the UVF and UFF want to keep it there. Neither wants to turn it into a theocracy. Muslim terrorists want to bring as much territory as possible under their religious law. So even though there are Christian terrorists, religion is not always their driving force as it is with Muslim terrorists.

Mobiboros · Post by **Mobiboros** » 2005-07-27 10:48am

wautd wrote:I'm debating with a guy who says terrorism is only a problem in Islam. Who can me provide links/examples that this isnt the case (like this "Army of God" bombing abortion clinics)

Does it need to be a very modern example?

Otherwise Guy Fawkes is a good example of Christian (Specifically catholic) terrorists. He didn't succeed but he did plan to blow up the british Parliament in 1605 (November 5th).

Wiki link: +http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes

Jalinth · Post by **Jalinth** » 2005-07-27 11:02am

Perinquus wrote:So even though there are Christian terrorists, religion is not always their driving force as it is with Muslim terrorists.

I'd have to agree with Perinquus. A Catholic/Protestant terrorist is a different bird altogether from a terrorist who happens to be Catholic/Protestant. The Irish groups are definitely more nationalistic rather than religous oriented - although the two are so tied up in Northern Ireland, it is hard to separate. Both groups are essentially thugs whatever the original motivation might be.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2005-07-27 11:35am

What about ETA in Spain?

That NOS Guy · Post by **That NOS Guy** » 2005-07-27 11:39am

2000AD wrote:What about ETA in Spain?

You mean the Basques (sp?)?

I always thought that was a mostly a nationalist front.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2005-07-27 11:51am

The Christian milita in Lebanon perhaps? Although that was more about ethniticity back when they were active. I can't think of any outright religous terror organization that specificly have Christianity as motivation, that sort of religous fanatisism seems to have burnt itself out in the Christian world. If you go back to the original spread of Christianity or the factionalism and schisms within it that was common for centuries up to the great religous wars you will probably find several groups that would be classified as terrorists today although most likely in the form of savage milita units and other paramilitary scum.

NPComplete · Post by **NPComplete** » 2005-07-27 12:24pm

It might be worth pointing out that a 'nationalist-religious' distinction is not possible with many Islamic terrorists, because of the union of church and state which is a key part of Islam.

Many of these examples (for example, the IRA) would be considered wholly religous terrorist groups if an equivalent situation existed in Islam.

What I mean to say is that many terrorists (or in fact, school-teachers, doctors, monster-truck drivers) in Islamic countries are religously motivated even if they were committing acts that would be classed as secular in other (read: western) countries.

Post by **The Wookiee** » 2005-07-27 02:02pm

Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph come to mind.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-07-27 02:05pm

The Wookiee wrote:Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph come to mind.

Timothy McVeigh's motivations were rooted in anti-government sentiments rather than anything religious though, weren't they?

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-07-27 02:25pm

If you mentioned Sudan/Uganda, no doubt you know about the Lord's resistance army. These guys are fucked up:

The LRA has abducted large numbers of civilians for training as guerrillas; most victims were children and young adults. The LRA abducted young girls as sex and labor slaves. Other children, mainly girls, were reported to have been sold, traded, or given as gifts by the LRA to arms dealers in Sudan. While some later escaped or were rescued, the whereabouts of many children remain unknown.

In particular, the LRA abducted numerous children and, at clandestine bases, terrorized them into virtual slavery as guards, concubines, and soldiers. In addition to being beaten, raped, and forced to march until exhausted, abducted children were forced to participate in the killing of other children who had attempted to escape. Amnesty International reported that without child abductions, the LRA would have few combatants. More than 6,000 children were abducted during 1998, although many of those abducted later escaped or were released. Most human rights NGOâs place the number of abducted children still held captive by the LRA at around 3,000, although estimates vary substantially.

...

The LRA rebels say they are fighting for the establishment of a government based on the biblical Ten Commandments.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-07-27 04:22pm

Rye wrote:If you mentioned Sudan/Uganda, no doubt you know about the Lord's resistance army. These guys are fucked up:

Yup

Fucking scumbags

Post by **The Wookiee** » 2005-07-27 05:09pm

General Zod wrote:
The Wookiee wrote:Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph come to mind.
Timothy McVeigh's motivations were rooted in anti-government sentiments rather than anything religious though, weren't they?

Good idea, I was thinking non-Muslim terrorists rather than Christian terrorists.

However, Eric Rudolph fits the bill completely.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2005-07-27 07:20pm

General Zod wrote:
The Wookiee wrote:Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph come to mind.
Timothy McVeigh's motivations were rooted in anti-government sentiments rather than anything religious though, weren't they?

However, he did belong to various white supremacist anti-government groups that took inspiration from the bible, although he was "disowned".

More importantly, see if you can find the article on who commited the first bio-terrorist attack in the US. They're a militia that wanted to create a Christian Nation.

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2005-07-27 09:31pm

You mean the Basques (sp?)?

I always thought that was a mostly a nationalist front.

Euskadi Ta Askatasuna is nationalistic and marxist/socialist (it depends who is speaking for ETA and when). They were officially aconfessional and some members were atheists/deists/generic theists.

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Urgent: examples needed for christian terrorists

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