Planetary destruction. Deathstar Vs Genesis Torpedo

[The Silence and I]

Except that it emits an easily detectable radiation.

O_o

Only for four short minutes before it's all over... before activation it's quiet as can be.

[and no, it won't be detected and shut down in time if I spend all the time I need hiding and shielding what is, after all, a very small and innocuous looking device]

Which the Death Star does effortlessly and single-handedly

So...? Since I can get the device on any planet that isn't completely quarrentined this is irrelevant to me. Both methods of insertion work, one is very direct the other is not, but both work.

Except when the message you want to send is: "See that cloud of gases and dust? That's what's left of the last people who tried to cross us."

That can be your message if you like, I prefer killing everyone and either leaving the planet a barren wasteland or terraforming it into a lush, mockery of what was there before. Particularly since it means I can get some prime real estate instead of a cloud of gas.

You assume people will only react to the one form of destruction, I do not think that is true.

[SirNitram]

Your problem, Silence, is your Genesis Terrorism Plot is not flexible. You used it up. Oops. Now the Death Star is hopping from world to world, destroying everythin in it's path. Simple cargo interdiction can stop your torpedos. It will not stop the Death Star.

[darth korte]

My question is whitch is more effective and more usful.

Now i know in the ST movies the Genesis project was a failer but for arument sake it dose.

Now i'd say the Deathstar was the more destructive.

But the Genesis torpedo was more usful because once the population is gone you have a new world to colonize.

But i'd love to hear your views.

bah ! forget crude death star ! take sun crusher. it is size of fighter,but it is equiped with torps what causes star collapse to super nova

The Supernova aspect is the only positive aspect to the Sun Crusher. The Death Star is far more practical since it's multipurpose. The Sun Crusher has far more negative going for it. It's size, weapon limitations, and that it is better suited for dealing with Starfighters not Capital ship whcih could just Tractor Beam it.

But then again KJA is a lousy writer.

sun crusher´s quantum crystal armor can withstand 99-100% what feds can throw agaist it (if they have weapons what are as strong as super laser)

[Lord Pounder]

the problem being that the Sun cruster is gonna take a long long time to destroy anything other than stars, it's weapons are only star fighter grade blasters iirc and can be disabled. Unless the Sun crusher is gonna ram every fed ship this is gonna be a long day.

[Eleas]

sun crusher´s quantum crystal armor can withstand 99-100% what feds can throw agaist it (if they have weapons what are as strong as super laser)

And your sources for these numbers are...?

[Noble Ire]

sun crusher´s quantum crystal armor can withstand 99-100% what feds can throw agaist it (if they have weapons what are as strong as super laser)

And your sources for these numbers are...?

It can shrug of the bombardment of three ISDs and can ram a Star Destroyer's command deck and still operate afterwards.

[NRS Guardian]

Plus the Sun Crusher was hit by the superlaser on the prototype death star, which had the firepower of the Eclipse superlaser, and was only crippled.

[Eleas]

sun crusher´s quantum crystal armor can withstand 99-100% what feds can throw agaist it (if they have weapons what are as strong as super laser)

And your sources for these numbers are...?

It can shrug of the bombardment of three ISDs and can ram a Star Destroyer's command deck and still operate afterwards.

Which gives us the figure 99-100% exactly how?

[The Silence and I]

Your problem, Silence, is your Genesis Terrorism Plot is not flexible. You used it up. Oops. Now the Death Star is hopping from world to world, destroying everythin in it's path. Simple cargo interdiction can stop your torpedos. It will not stop the Death Star.

But the DS is a target that can be attacked. I personally favor the torpedo because I offer nothing to wage war against, I can strike any world that isn't completely closed off and no one can strike back at me (well, not as easily).

The DS is a powerful target to be sure, but it is still a target and can be brought down. It also cannot be everywhere at once, my torpedoes can.


Not that the DS isn't extremely effective and even vastly superior in some situations. Both have advantages and disadvantages and I favor the advantages of the torpedo.

[Noble Ire]

Which gives us the figure 99-100% exactly how?

By extrapolation I suppose. Certainly, there was no Federation fleet at the Maw installation to give us direct evidence, but if the Sun Crusher was able to shrug of cannonades from ISDs, weapons discharges that are considered powerful enough to obliterate Federation ships (that seems to be the general consensus here) then it can be assumed with good reason that Federation weapons would fair far worse. Is there a problem in this reasoning I'm missing? I never claimed a specific figure, but the one given seems farily reasonable.

[Eleas]

By extrapolation I suppose. Certainly, there was no Federation fleet at the Maw installation to give us direct evidence, but if the Sun Crusher was able to shrug of cannonades from ISDs, weapons discharges that are considered powerful enough to obliterate Federation ships (that seems to be the general consensus here) then it can be assumed with good reason that Federation weapons would fair far worse. Is there a problem in this reasoning I'm missing? I never claimed a specific figure, but the one given seems farily reasonable.

You didn't, but Darth Korte did. And bullshitting numbers (as he so clearly did) bugs me, particularly because I feel like being annoyed at fanboys who think "pro-SW" means you can make shit up and not get called on it.

Plus, I'm cranky right now.

[Civil War Man]

The DS is a powerful target to be sure, but it is still a target and can be brought down. It also cannot be everywhere at once, my torpedoes can.

The DS can be attacked, but it pretty much takes a Jedi to be able to do anything worthwhile in the attack.

[Darth Wong]

The DS is a powerful target to be sure, but it is still a target and can be brought down. It also cannot be everywhere at once, my torpedoes can.

That's retarded; it's far easier to bring down a smuggler ship or a planetary system where it originated than to attack a Death Star. That's the whole point: the Genesis Device is offensive but has no defensive qualities at all; once they know who you are, the jig is up and your whole civilization is toast. But a Death Star is different; they can know precisely who you are and where you are, and they can't do jack shit about it.

[SirNitram]

Your problem, Silence, is your Genesis Terrorism Plot is not flexible. You used it up. Oops. Now the Death Star is hopping from world to world, destroying everythin in it's path. Simple cargo interdiction can stop your torpedos. It will not stop the Death Star.

But the DS is a target that can be attacked. I personally favor the torpedo because I offer nothing to wage war against, I can strike any world that isn't completely closed off and no one can strike back at me (well, not as easily).

I can strike any system, period. The Death Star is designed to bring the fight wherever it can go. It can cross the galaxy in hours, destroy any planet, destroy fleets, etc. I can hit closed off worlds, shielded worlds, fortress worlds...

You, on the other hand, lose to a cargo inspection.

The DS is a powerful target to be sure, but it is still a target and can be brought down. It also cannot be everywhere at once, my torpedoes can.

Now you're flat out lying. Your torpedos can only go where smuggling will not be interdicted. Even then, you don't get unlimited ones.

Not that the DS isn't extremely effective and even vastly superior in some situations. Both have advantages and disadvantages and I favor the advantages of the torpedo.

Because you're apparently dishonest or a moron.

[DrkHelmet]

The DS is a powerful target to be sure, but it is still a target and can be brought down. It also cannot be everywhere at once, my torpedoes can.

Out of curiosity, how many Genesis torpedos do you think could be built for the price of a Death Star?

[Srynerson]

Out of curiosity, how many Genesis torpedos do you think could be built for the price of a Death Star?

Well, I believe the consensus here is that the Death Star represents a commitment of resources orders of magnitude greater than the Federation's known starship construction capacity, whereas the Genesis Device didn't put an overwhelming strain on the Federation's economy. That doesn't give an exact number to your question, of course, but I think that's the best answer with the available information.

[Darth Servo]

Out of curiosity, how many Genesis torpedos do you think could be built for the price of a Death Star?

Well, I believe the consensus here is that the Death Star represents a commitment of resources orders of magnitude greater than the Federation's known starship construction capacity, whereas the Genesis Device didn't put an overwhelming strain on the Federation's economy. That doesn't give an exact number to your question, of course, but I think that's the best answer with the available information.

Of course we have no idea how dificult it is to obtain protomatter.

[Noble Ire]

Of course we have no idea how dificult it is to obtain protomatter.

Doesnt the Changling impersonating Bashier get some out of DS9's industrial replicator for his shuttle mounted "star destroyer"?

[Darth Wong]

You can buy a shitload of .22 calibre bullets for the cost of a nuclear ICBM system too, but that doesn't necessarily make them better killing machines.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Plus the Sun Crusher was hit by the superlaser on the prototype death star, which had the firepower of the Eclipse superlaser, and was only crippled.

Actually it was grazed.

[Darth Servo]

Of course we have no idea how dificult it is to obtain protomatter.

Doesnt the Changling impersonating Bashier get some out of DS9's industrial replicator for his shuttle mounted "star destroyer"?

Even if thats true, stealing some from a known source is not the same as mining the stuff from where ever it occurs naturally (IF it occurs naturally). If its not natural then they manufacture it somehow and this point still doesn't address that.

[Typhonis 1]

Death Star has a flexibility the Genesis Torpedo cannot match. Dont want to blow the planet up? Fine you can BDZ it with the DS weapons or ...since it may be large enough...what would it do if placed in a Lunar style orbit around a planet hmmm? Then theres interdiction Trade Federation style only you now have a place to service the fleet for an extended period of time.

As for resources....the Empire was able to use the ships available to a privately owned shipping firm to ferry enough supplies to build it. So the material expenditure must be miniscule compared to the economy of the Empire.

[montypython]

Soren's Trilithium torpedo/missile would be a better weapon than a genesis device.

[Dark]

But Only he knew how to make it work.

[Dakarne]

The Sun Crusher still beats the trilithium torpedo though... it can stay to watch the supernova!