Christianity and sex

[Surlethe]

Fuck. No wonder men in the 1800s has so many mistresses. That's disgusting.

[Perinquus]

Wait a minute.. was that article a parody, or was it honest?

So far as I can tell, it appears to be honest. An urban legends website has its status as undetermined. And I have encountered another site whereon a collector of 19th century literature states that that sort of writing was by no means unusual at that time.

[Gil Hamilton]

Even if that manual is an urban legend, but there were loads of literature for young brides that were of a similar vein but quite real. It says something that prior to the twentieth century, the female orgasm was actually considered a medical problem which they called "female hysteria" or "hysterical paroxysm". Women in polite society weren't supposed to enjoy sex too much and even were treated for it. This involved professional doctors manually "releasing tension" during house calls and also is the origin of the vibrator (including steam powered vibrators and a vibrating chair that worked on a foot treadle, IIRC), but there were also some fairly horrible medical treatments in some cases. It was also considered medically "unhealthy" for a woman to orgasm any other way than vaginal sex in the missionary position.

[Jarl Sven]

Even if that manual is an urban legend, but there were loads of literature for young brides that were of a similar vein but quite real..........

Thus Queen Victoria's famous reply to her daughter (when she said she didn't enjoy sex with her husband the Prussian Crown Prince) to lie back and "think of England"


a shame really
but since we're all here attitudes like that clearly didn't stop sex from occurring

[tharkûn]

So far as I can tell, it appears to be honest. An urban legends website has its status as undetermined. And I have encountered another site whereon a collector of 19th century literature states that that sort of writing was by no means unusual at that time.

That particular one is a hoax.

The "Arcadian Methodist Church" has no other surviving documentation. It shows up nowhere else on the internet, it isn't any historical reference I have on Christian Denominations.

The language of the document is most decidely NOT that of a period methodist church wife. Using "sex" to refer to intercourse was considered vulgar at the period in time. At the time period a churchman's wife encouraging
"Arguments, nagging, scolding, and bickering" is extremely atypical - this is possibly the height of the "bridal submission" school of thought.

What was far more common was the view that what we consider normal female horniness was a disease as women weren't supposed to be THAT carnal. Women were discouraged from being over sexual, however lead to the development of the steam powered vibrator to releive tension - not to appeals by a pastor's wife to behave not only in an "unchristian manner" (lying, nagging, argueing) but also to go directly against the period ideals (of the submissive wife seeking to make the homelife blissful for her husband).

Also interestingly enough I've seen three different dates attached to this and three seperate publishing houses (none of which has managed to leave anything to internet posterity either).

Frankly the language is far too modern, far too against Victorian mores in general, and far too suspect to be treated legitimately.

[spikenigma]

[quote="tharkûn]
That particular one is a hoax.
[/quote]

phew!

that article was just disgusting. I pity the poor man who has to endure a marriage like that

[SyntaxVorlon]

Victorian attitudes toward sex are the culprit here, not some christian sex taboo. The whole celibacy in the clergy is mainly to keep the priests from passing on land and church money to children. No children, no inheritance, church gets all its money back, Pope gets to do a little jig on the graves of former employees scotfree.

[Lord Woodlouse]

Thread title sounds like a cool new sitcom.

As for the topic, well, I don't think most mainstream Christians see sex as a particularly sinful thing in itself. I think a lot actually glory in it. The main argument against it, outside of marriage, I think is more to do with the consequences of it. It's supposed to be the ultimate expression of love, and should not really be given lightly (the emotional fallout from such can so often be bad). It also can quite easily have physical consequences, too, as we all well know. This can have emotional fallout, too, as regardless of your opinion on the rights and wrongs of abortion it can still cause distress even in those who support the right. Some would feel obligated to have a child, when they're not ready... and on top of that, for the especially promiscuous, there's the risk of infection. It's all about the path to hell filled with good intentions, I believe.

That said, I don't think it's necisarily right to have a blanket disregard for sex outside of marriage. But I think it IS almost certainly wrong if both partners have not considered what they're doing (and caring deeply for that person is usually one of the better reasons) and are ready to accept the consequences whatever they might be. But then, I'm not especially religious. I am perhaps not the best advocate from the religious side of the argument. But that's how I see it.

[tharkûn]

Victorian attitudes toward sex are the culprit here, not some christian sex taboo. The whole celibacy in the clergy is mainly to keep the priests from passing on land and church money to children. No children, no inheritance, church gets all its money back, Pope gets to do a little jig on the graves of former employees scotfree.

Victorian attitudes toward sex are extremely varied. Aside from the eastern half of the US, (and the most civilized portions of the west coast), parts of Canada, and the British people of the British Empire - sex attitudes varied heavily in the Victorian period. For instance in France, Austria-Hungary, and Russia sexual mores of the people differed - particularly in countries were the middle class wasn't large and an ideal of a homemaker wife was utterly impractical. Victorian sexual mores were not omnipresent in Europe and were most definately an aberretion in history.

The celibacy in the clergy thing is ancient, to my knowledge only the oldest European denominations (Orthodox and Catholic) have restrictions on clerical marriage and in the East that only applied to those higher up in the ranks (your typical Orthodox priest is married).

[FSTargetDrone]

Ah celibacy...

"Of all perversions, abstinence is the strangest."
-Simone de Beauvoir