Who CAN the Federation Ground Troops beat?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

No one mentioned the Teletubbies yet?

I mean look, they have the bright uniform, the mental attacks and an undying appetite to annoy any living creature.

Teletubbies?! That should be banned!

[Admiral Valdemar]

No one mentioned the Teletubbies yet?

I mean look, they have the bright uniform, the mental attacks and an undying appetite to annoy any living creature.

Teletubbies?! That should be banned!

No sir! It is the ultimate weapon!

[VF5SS]

Send Bomberman after them! He'll blow em straight to hell...

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

No sir! It is the ultimate weapon!

Fine. You may fire, er broadcast the show when ready:D

[Rob Wilson]

No one mentioned the Teletubbies yet?

I mean look, they have the bright uniform, the mental attacks and an undying appetite to annoy any living creature.

Teletubbies?! That should be banned!

But then what would British uni Students watch instead of attending classes?

[Mr Bean]

Good old Seasme Street like what I was raised on!



Best contraviseral free kid show made

[Rob Wilson]

Good old Seasme Street like what I was raised on!



Best contraviseral free kid show made

Oh dear god no, I can feel my brain shrinking just by thinking of that show, it was awful, what a waste of the muppets!

Admittedly I'm no fan of the Tellytubbies but at least they didn't try to teach people to mispell words and mispronounce letters.

IN fact I'm just tryiong to think what the fuck the Tubbies actually were trying to teach people....that hoovers make good pets, perhaps?

[Carcharodon]

Those guys in the opening scene of 2001: A Space Odyssey might provide a suitable challenge. Especially with that femur they have. Wicked.

[Rob Wilson]

Those guys in the opening scene of 2001: A Space Odyssey might provide a suitable challenge. Especially with that femur they have. Wicked.

Oh we're back on-topic

How about the Ferengi? After watching them on DS9 I'm sure even the Feds could beat them in a fire fight (provided we ignore TNG when they were fought to a draw by smaller ferengi numbers).

[Admiral Valdemar]

Those guys in the opening scene of 2001: A Space Odyssey might provide a suitable challenge. Especially with that femur they have. Wicked.

Oh we're back on-topic

How about the Ferengi? After watching them on DS9 I'm sure even the Feds could beat them in a fire fight (provided we ignore TNG when they were fought to a draw by smaller ferengi numbers).

Protozoa with attitude would be sufficient so long as they don't fall for DIPLOMACY STYLE TACTICS!

[Rob Wilson]

Those guys in the opening scene of 2001: A Space Odyssey might provide a suitable challenge. Especially with that femur they have. Wicked.

Oh we're back on-topic

How about the Ferengi? After watching them on DS9 I'm sure even the Feds could beat them in a fire fight (provided we ignore TNG when they were fought to a draw by smaller ferengi numbers).

Protozoa with attitude would be sufficient so long as they don't fall for DIPLOMACY STYLE TACTICS!

"Mr Protozoa Ambassdor, in return for you stopping the slaughter of my men I will provide you with many Petri Dishes filled with Agar Jelly.."

[Admiral Valdemar]

"Mr Protozoa Ambassdor, in return for you stopping the slaughter of my men I will provide you with many Petri Dishes filled with Agar Jelly.."

FLURBLE!

*Drop kicks UFP diplomat over San Francisco bay*

[Marcello Invernizzi]

OK the federation troops suck but I think that we are exaggerating.
A Napoleonic era musket takes nearly a full minute to reload and it is highly
inaccurate(and it does not work well under rain.)
A federation phaser rifle has a much higher rate of fire and with the latest version (seen in first contact) you can aim with an accuracy equal or superior to a Napoleonic era musket.
The typical napoleonic era army gun fires a 12ibs (or smaller) iron ball.
Note that the ball does not contain explosive,so it is not highly effective,since it has to hit directly the target to damage it(no shrapnel).In practice the ball has to rebounce on the ground several times to cause a significative amount of damage to the enemy troops.The only other ammunition available was a box filled with pistol balls,far more effective for anti personnel use but only at short range.
A federation grenade launcher (seen in Insurrection) cause more or less the same damage of a Napoleonic era gun,it is portable and certainly has an higher rate of fire.

[Cpt_Frank]

But they'd fall victim to Napoleon's infamous heavy Cavalry.

[Sea Skimmer]

A federation phaser rifle has a much higher rate of fire and with the latest version (seen in first contact) you can aim with an accuracy equal or superior to a Napoleonic era musket.

Actualy a Napoleonic era musket can fire three shots per minute

A federation grenade launcher (seen in Insurrection) cause more or less the same damage of a Napoleonic era gun,it is portable and certainly has an higher rate of fire.

Same damage, yes. However it has not demostrated anything like the range of a cannon and was only fired once. It may be single shot for all we know.

[Guest]

Yes you are correct about the musket's fire rate.
However the cannon maximum effective range was 300 meters(600 meters absolute maximum).I do not remeber exactly but I think that Worf was at least a couple of hundreds of meters away when he fired the grenade launcher.And the reloading procedure of the grenade launcher cannot take more time that that of a Napoleonic era cannon.At least the feds do not have to clean the barrel with a sponge filled of water(to avoid premature explosions) before reloading.

[CmdrWilkens]

I think they could be an old army. Phasers SHOULD outrange muskats and cannons. Plus the whole lightning striking and making men disappear.

However those "magic" phasers seem to have an effetive range measured in the dozens of metres. The British Army by 1810 had already organized and fuly formed the Green jackets, riflemen in nearly division strength. Using the Bayor Rifle (I believe that's the name but its been a while) they could hit targets accurately up to about 300 yards away with consisten hits in the 150 yard range. these troops would be completely beyond the range of the Feds counterfire and for the most part the men were all skilled in fieldcraft so they would have served as excellent advanced detachments whittling commanders down and eliminating coordination in any mass Federation movement.

Once a general action began the Heavy Calvary of any Napoleonic Army would have enough speed to quickly voer the range from shooting distance to close engagement where the Feds would eb literally chopped to pieces by sabre wielding calvarymen. These troops are the same one who would rush headlong into a barricade full of hrapnel loaded cannon suffering 80 eprcent losse, they would not flinch with some of their number being killed (Most phaser shots do NOT result in disintigration).

On the other hand the Feds have NEVEr experienced the horrors of close combat with swords, shrapnel artillery and solid shot ripping into small formations of men (they do appear to move in fireteams but they would STILL be subject to accurate enough artillery fire). No Federation troops have ever watched as their buddy goes from being a onversational pal and turns into a pile of pink stained goo as a solid shot turns his skull into a stump. The sheer bloodbath fo the Napoleonic warfighting style is something the Feds have NEVEr experienced and will be psychologically unpreparred for. it take training, discipline, and a strong sense of brotherhood to voercome these horrors while the Feds have none of those traits in their fighting men.

[Cpt_Frank]

It's called the Baker rifle.
Although needing longer to reload than a standard non-rifled musket (which can be fired up to 4 times a minute), it's more accurate and has a longer range.
And you're absolutely right, the fighting style of that era would be too much for their poor nerves.
Imagine a Redshirt being hit in the chest by a solid ball of lead, or the heavy Cavalry slicing thru their lines.
After seeing two or three of them getting litteraly slaughtered, they'd surely flee like (fucking cowards they are).

[Admiral Piett]

We have not seen a lot of phaser action in open grounds,so to say that their maximum range is so limited that the ray loses effectiviness after few tens of meters it is like to say that the star destroyers main turbolasers turrets are only decorations since we have never seen them firing a single shot.Highly unlikely.
We have to consider that the feds have communicators which would enable their commanders to issue orders far more quickly than in a Napolonic army, although they probably lack the training to exploit this advantage to coordinate better their troops.
Trycorders should give them a better awareness of the situation,although again the may not be able to take advantage from this.

[Cpt_Frank]

Certainly depends on the combat situation who'd win.
If the battle is fought on an open field, the feds would certainly lose because of the massed musket fire, the artillery and the Cavalry.
But if the battle is fought in, for example, a forest, they'd possibly win, because the cavalry and artillery wouldn't be of much use there, and small arms from that era are inferior to phasers in terms of range, accuracy and firing frequency.

[Admiral Piett]

I think that phaser range limitations are due more to difficulties with sensors than to the ray itself.The enterprise can drill a pit on a planet from orbit (several thousands of kilometers of sistance) but must very close to an enemy ship to hit it because probably her sensors can be jammed very easily.
In the same way hand phasers range can be limited by the impossibility to aim effectively with their horrible designs but this does not mean that the ray itself is ineffective only few tens of meters away.And since the phaser rifle seen in first contact has decent ergonomics I think it is safe to assume that its effective range is at least comparable to a Napoleonic era musket.

[Howedar]

Nonsense. Worf immediately threw one down in Insurrection to use that silly grenade-launcher thing.

[Lord MJ]

We have absolutely no idea what the Federation ground force is like. Since we only saw Federation ground troops twice, and those were small units. In DS9's "Nor the Battle to the Strong" and "The Seige of AR 558".


We have no idea if the Federation has a large ground army, or if it does, what it's capabilities are.

Federation, Klingon, and Romulan troops landed on Chin Toka, and were going to land on Cardassia Prime (WYLB). But since we never actually saw either incident, anything we say about Federation armies is speculation.

[CmdrWilkens]

We have not seen a lot of phaser action in open grounds,so to say that their maximum range is so limited that the ray loses effectiviness after few tens of meters it is like to say that the star destroyers main turbolasers turrets are only decorations since we have never seen them firing a single shot.Highly unlikely.
We have to consider that the feds have communicators which would enable their commanders to issue orders far more quickly than in a Napolonic army, although they probably lack the training to exploit this advantage to coordinate better their troops.
Trycorders should give them a better awareness of the situation,although again the may not be able to take advantage from this.

The one telling instance which would limit phaser range comes in ST:I when Worf abandons a phaser rifle for the RPG thingy to engage troops not more than a couple hundred meters distant (he need no optical enhancements).

Additionally the lack of sights means that the phaser rifles are only as accurate as sighting along the barrell allows and humans are too imprecise without reference to be accurate out to more than 100-200m. Basically the ergonomics and construction of the phasers/phaser rifles dictates their maximum range and it will not exceed that of the Baker rifle and it will most certainly be dwarfed by the range of the light field artillery of the day.

[Typhonis 1]

OOO use tricorders more often...might as well send up a signal flare and let your foes know where you are for artillery practice