Munchkin gaming, Low-level and high-level play

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2002-11-25 09:02pm

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote: OMG you sound like the elven munchkin friend of mine who only ever wants to play a high elf king and look down on others... and to him High Elf means Noldor, so the elves are bigger stronger and faster than humans.

Nah I play other species, elfs are my prefered species I admit, but I have a Human Druid in one campaign who replaced a Half-orc Barbarian. (The Barbarian had died oh about 4 times, roughly once a session, after defeating the main threat, the come down from the rage got him, or the guys bodygaurd.... (i belive once I leaped over a line of Pikemen, to attack the boss, I rolled obscenly on the Jump test, killed the boss and then got massacred, as it was misty and others couldn't find me...) I do Play elves a lot, but not exclusivly...

Post by **Beowulf** » 2002-11-25 09:48pm

Cyril wrote:Dammit! I just wrote out the entire four-paragraph story explaining how the 15th lvl wizard was killed by a kobold and I LOST THE FRICKIN' POST!

Shit happens.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-25 09:50pm

Calm down Cyril... But do try. I want to know.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-11-25 10:03pm

Plot of an epic level campaign I am using to test ou the rules in the epic level handbook

Evil mage is waging war against the entire multiverse from an unknown location. He is using powerful artifacts to contro all of dragon kind.

What the party has to do is pass through the 8 portals, in order to retrieve the 8 keys for the 9th portal that leads to the mages mysterious plane of existence(it is the portal that his minions come from at least)

1. 9 hells, the portal leads the party to the first liar, they must trave, non-magicaly to the 9th layer to retrieve the key

2. Ravenloft, yes ravenloft, need I say more

3. plane of air

4. The land of death

5. Bitopia

6. Arcadium

7. astral plane

8. Negative energy plane

The mages plane, i have not planned out yet.

It will end up being a huge intraplanar journy of EpIC proportions. the stuff of legend.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-11-25 10:06pm

Jeebus man...level 20+

Looks cool though...ack Ravenloft...gah Uber undead with far too many innate powers...gah.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-25 10:07pm

Involve abominations, Alyrium.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-11-25 10:08pm

Oh dont worry. I will

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-11-25 10:27pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote: It will end up being a huge intraplanar journy of EpIC proportions. the stuff of legend.

In the aforementioned campaign I was in, the GM took us through a great old 1st Ed (which is what we were playing) module called Chateau D'Amber.

5-7th level chars vs Amber = messed up.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-25 10:42pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Oh dont worry. I will

I've got it! A paragon pseudonatural infernal with class levels in fighter and blackguard! Not to mention roguish skillz, if you want.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-11-25 11:06pm

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-25 11:11pm

In general use the classes to add options and back the options up with the muscle of templates. Pseudonatural is better for fighter types while Paragon is overall better but is better suited for casty monsters.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-11-25 11:37pm

While having one supremely powerful baddie can be fun, I tend to maximize the critters that I have.

Kobolds, for example. Everyone learns to kill Kobolds. But they are sneaky fuckers, and with time to create traps and such, and with a few class levels, they become a decent group to assault a mid-level party.

Once I did an entire arc on some unknown Sorcerer trying to cast the ultimate spell, Avatar. Lots of powerful planar critters, espeially near the end, when they finally track the guy to the Outlands, and realize he's employing the nature of the plane to use Avatar. Of course, the PC's were always a little confused because EVERYWHERE, there were Kobolds.

Who was the Sorcerer? The lone survivor of a tribe they had raided in the first adventure.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-25 11:41pm

SirNitram wrote:While having one supremely powerful baddie can be fun, I tend to maximize the critters that I have.

Kobolds, for example. Everyone learns to kill Kobolds. But they are sneaky fuckers, and with time to create traps and such, and with a few class levels, they become a decent group to assault a mid-level party.

Once I did an entire arc on some unknown Sorcerer trying to cast the ultimate spell, Avatar. Lots of powerful planar critters, espeially near the end, when they finally track the guy to the Outlands, and realize he's employing the nature of the plane to use Avatar. Of course, the PC's were always a little confused because EVERYWHERE, there were Kobolds.

Who was the Sorcerer? The lone survivor of a tribe they had raided in the first adventure.

Shit. I thank you SirNitram. I also forgot - The Humble Soldier Kills The King

Give normally weak monsters class levels and they can become deadly-ass. E.g. Party sees bunch of fleeing Kobolds.

" Ahh, it's nothing, we're level 15 anyway. "

Next morning the party is found dead in their sleep. Kobold size daggers are found in their throats, which were expertly slit.

Don't fuck with the Kobold Kommandos!!!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-11-25 11:47pm

My players developed a pathological fear of Kobolds after that final battle, where the Sorcerer flung spells that could decimate armies at them, screeching in it's high, whiny voice, calling them babykillers... Nothing shakes a party like a Kobold that can cast Meteor Swarm. Repeatedly.

But learning how to use those things well will solve most of your problems. Once you have a Kobold hideout trapped, with some holding class levels, and set up, you know most you need to know about dungeon crawls.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-25 11:59pm

Nitram speaks true.
Any encounter can be dangerous if the monsters use their brains...

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-11-25 11:59pm

Paragon legendary great wyrm force dragon with 20 levels of sorcerer tacked on to his pre-existing effective class levels, then add on some psionics, and figher levels

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-26 12:03am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Paragon legendary great wyrm force dragon with 20 levels of sorcerer tacked on to his pre-existing effective class levels, then add on some psionics, and figher levels

No need for Sorceror, he already casts as a sorceror and the class levels of sorceror don't stack. Psionics is excellent, gives him far more options. You only need as many levels of fighter that are necessary to get the desired combat feats... Improved Whirlwind Attack with Devastating Critical (claw) anyone?

I thought not.
And since you're using a great wyrm force dragon, which is naturally improved invisible, give him rogue levels so every attack roll he makes will have sneak attack damage added to it...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-11-26 12:08am

I, myself, would simply use a Great Wyrm Red, with some Monk levels, maybe, who, having had centuries to itself, has created a vast maze, filled with traps, servants, explosions, and to throw the adventures, hot cups of tea.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-26 12:09am

SirNitram wrote:I, myself, would simply use a Great Wyrm Red, with some Monk levels, maybe, who, having had centuries to itself, has created a vast maze, filled with traps, servants, explosions, and to throw the adventures, hot cups of tea.

Better, yet, if they have to rescue an arrogant princess, have a veiled seving girl serve them the tea, then when the horny fighter raises her veil, they see... the princess, all broken and docile-like. They don''t know HOW evil dragon do0d did it, and she suddenly starts to cry and cry while evil dragon do0d does obligatory evil laugh.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-11-26 12:12am

I never thought of giving a force dragon rouge levels

Thank you for the suggestion.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-11-26 12:14am

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:
SirNitram wrote:I, myself, would simply use a Great Wyrm Red, with some Monk levels, maybe, who, having had centuries to itself, has created a vast maze, filled with traps, servants, explosions, and to throw the adventures, hot cups of tea.
Better, yet, if they have to rescue an arrogant princess, have a veiled seving girl serve them the tea, then when the horny fighter raises her veil, they see... the princess, all broken and docile-like. They don''t know HOW evil dragon do0d did it, and she suddenly starts to cry and cry while evil dragon do0d does obligatory evil laugh.

Weakling. The veiled girl is the dragon, polymorphed. The real girl is being held deeper in the maze, who has been controlled by so many spells she is now the sex-toy of the local humanoid guards.

SOLVE THAT WITH YOUR DICE, MORTALS!

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-26 12:18am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:I never thought of giving a force dragon rouge levels

Thank you for the suggestion.

You're welcome.

And don't forget to cast Contingent Resurrection on him.

Oh, you wiped out Malathraxus the evil dragon of Do0m? And you say the DM's a wimp? Okay.

1 minute later Malathraxus GETS BACK UP!

Roll saves, suckas!

But the focus shouldn't be about powerful opponents in combat. Rather, it should be about the evil of the dragon. Maybe he kills his pawns after they've done shit for him. Make him a reprehensible bastard, or simply a PC with opposed goals. It's your campaign, knock yourself out.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2002-11-26 12:32am

SirNitram wrote:Nothing shakes a party like a Kobold that can cast Meteor Swarm. Repeatedly.

24d6 damage no save is rather nasty... Especially if it does more than 50 damage...

Character = instantly dead. Very Black Magish actually...

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-26 12:37am

Beowulf wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Nothing shakes a party like a Kobold that can cast Meteor Swarm. Repeatedly.
24d6 damage no save is rather nasty... Especially if it does more than 50 damage...

Character = instantly dead. Very Black Magish actually...

That's to ONE person. The area of effect version allows a save.

And Nitram: The Dragon's EVIL! And he's not even there. It's an illusion! Besides, you could program the princess to become some killbot on your command.

But I like the sex-slave idea... Dragon first, orcs second, human third...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-11-26 12:41am

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Nothing shakes a party like a Kobold that can cast Meteor Swarm. Repeatedly.
24d6 damage no save is rather nasty... Especially if it does more than 50 damage...

Character = instantly dead. Very Black Magish actually...
That's to ONE person. The area of effect version allows a save.

And Nitram: The Dragon's EVIL! And he's not even there. It's an illusion! Besides, you could program the princess to become some killbot on your command.

But I like the sex-slave idea... Dragon first, orcs second, human third...

It makes the dragon that much more evil. Sure, he eats people, sure, he flame-broiled the village, but HE LET A TROLL FUCK YOUR BETROTHED!

Besides, my players are horny. But they pay for it. Example: Party is hunting a Lich. Find a sorcereress who nearly gets killed by undead, they save her. She fucks the Paladin in reward.

The Paladin is found the next morning on death's door from supernatural cold damage, because the sorcereress was the Lich, and he touched her skin.