Tech Support for Christianity

Steven Snyder · Post by **Steven Snyder** » 2005-08-02 01:19pm

So I was thinking...

If I have problems with my computer, I call tech support. I contact the manufacturer of the product for help on it. What I don't do is call CompUSA and ask them why my cupholder pulls back into the computer after a few minutes. I don't call my satellite provider when I am angry that a show in Scifi is cancelled.

So I get in touch with the source of the product when I have an issue with it, I don't just call the reseller. So why is this all different with religion?

If god is all-powerful...why doesn't he have a Help Desk? Why isn't there a phone number, email address, or even a snail-mail address to contact him? If he is all powerful he can make this happen.

Okay well maybe he is busy, which kinda contradicts the entire ALL POWERFUL statement...but maybe someone made some iron chariots and he is locked in a land war in Asia with them.
Can I contact someone else in his organization, an Angel perhaps? They should have some time here and there between keeping the faithful safe.

How about any of the souls in heaven, if heaven does exist then why is death a barrier? Couldn't god or someone else in his organization contract with AT&T to get some lines up there?

Tokaji Kyoden · Post by **Tokaji Kyoden** » 2005-08-02 02:19pm

God does have a help desk, and a website and everything. The Bible and the ministry(some, not all). You can usually get your questions answered by people in the church, if not the minister, priests, whatever they happened to be in your religion.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2005-08-02 02:31pm

Tokaji Kyoden wrote:God does have a help desk, and a website and everything. The Bible and the ministry(some, not all). You can usually get your questions answered by people in the church, if not the minister, priests, whatever they happened to be in your religion.

Incorrect. The relationship of God to these folks is very much the relationship Linus Torvalds has to open source community. While there was originallly this single UNIX derivative OS, it has split into a whole bunch of different distros, and there is a shitload of open-source, as well as proprietary software written for it, whose documentation quality ranges from "really good" to "appalling" to "make it up yourself 'cuz it doesn't exist," and these people feel compelled to extoll the virtues of Linux and open-source to those heathens running Windows. There is no official help desk, and the answer to the question you ask depends largely on who you're asking and what mood they happen to be in at the time.

Saying that God has a help-desk would be akin to the relationship Microsoft developers have with Microsoft. That is, there is an official developer's network, and official processes and procedures to follow, and Microsoft itself issues new directives, leaving little or no ambiguity as to what it is they're trying to communicate to you. This is not the case with Christianity or any other religion, since God doesn't seem to care all that much that there are hundreds of distributions of Christianity out there.

Tokaji Kyoden · Post by **Tokaji Kyoden** » 2005-08-02 02:42pm

OK, well if you're taking along those lines... I got a little mixed up in what he was asking.

Anyway, I tend to lean more towards the Deistic side of christianity. Under those ideas, God purposely leaves the earth alone to grow and fend for itself. So therefore, no, he wouldn't have a help desk. He'd rather see people struggle and grow for themselves. Like the old saying: "Give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and he can eat for a lifetime"

That's the way I think of it, at least. Then again, I'm not a very religious person by todays standards.

Dakarne · Post by **Dakarne** » 2005-08-02 02:52pm

It's a good point...

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-08-02 05:42pm

Because He's got a whole goddamn universe of with billions of galaxies and probably inhabited worlds beyond counting to run, and He's got better things to do with His time than deal with our stupid questions. Jeez, He gave you functioning brains and holy books and prophets, what more do you want?
Honestly humanity must be a collassally arrogant species, the way it whines about God not doing enough for them and continually pestering Him to help them out of tight spots. You try running the universe.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2005-08-02 05:52pm

Junghalli wrote:Because He's got a whole goddamn universe of with billions of galaxies and probably inhabited worlds beyond counting to run, and He's got better things to do with His time than deal with our stupid questions. Jeez, He gave you functioning brains and holy books and prophets, what more do you want?

His mighty all-powerfulness could, I don't know, instantly solve every single problem we have, since he knows them all, loves us all, and can do anything.

Junghalli wrote: Honestly humanity must be a collassally arrogant species, the way it whines about God not doing enough for them and continually pestering Him to help them out of tight spots. You try running the universe.

Give me infinite power, inifinite knowledge, and infinite wisdom and I'll run you a fucking universe and it'll be great. This isn't whiny and impotent Bruce Allmighty talking, Duck Allmighty gets stuff done for his customers.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-08-03 12:42am

MRDOD wrote:His mighty all-powerfulness could, I don't know, instantly solve every single problem we have, since he knows them all, loves us all, and can do anything.

That's true. When you think about it given God's track record it actually makes a lot more sense for Him to be insanely powerful but have limits.
And really, it always made sense to me that God must have a difficult time actually caring about and empathizing with mortals. I mean, surely to a being off that kind of power the natural tendency would be to think of a human life as utterly insignficant. Which is probably why He doesn't seem to pay all that much attention to us.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2005-08-03 06:41am

Junghalli wrote:I mean, surely to a being off that kind of power the natural tendency would be to think of a human life as utterly insignficant. Which is probably why He doesn't seem to pay all that much attention to us.

That's only true if you subscribe to a deistic uncaring God. The Biblical God is an entirely different animal; we're supposed to believe that he created the entire universe just for us.

Dakarne · Post by **Dakarne** » 2005-08-03 06:58am

That's only true if you subscribe to a deistic uncaring God. The Biblical God is an entirely different animal; we're supposed to believe that he created the entire universe just for us.

Or he said that like a parent says that an individual child is his favourite... just to calm the child down.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-08-03 07:30am

Dakarne wrote:
That's only true if you subscribe to a deistic uncaring God. The Biblical God is an entirely different animal; we're supposed to believe that he created the entire universe just for us.
Or he said that like a parent says that an individual child is his favourite... just to calm the child down.

That would still require that he care, which is the whole point.

Dakarne · Post by **Dakarne** » 2005-08-03 07:41am

That would still require that he care, which is the whole point.

Maybe when we got to the last recorded instance in the Bible he just deemed us adults and kicked us out...

Of course that's assuming that what happened in the "Big Book" was true.

Steven Snyder · Post by **Steven Snyder** » 2005-08-03 08:29am

Junghalli wrote: That's true. When you think about it given God's track record it actually makes a lot more sense for Him to be insanely powerful but have limits.
And really, it always made sense to me that God must have a difficult time actually caring about and empathizing with mortals.

I thought about this...which brings us to the second point.

If he is too busy, alien, or whatever, why doesn't he staff his Help Desk with either angels, or those who have already ascended to heaven?

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-08-03 02:43pm

Steven Snyder wrote:If he is too busy, alien, or whatever, why doesn't he staff his Help Desk with either angels, or those who have already ascended to heaven?

They've got better things to do too.

To a certain extent this seems to be the case. In a lot of religious texts its His servants doing the actual work, not God Himself (which BTW never made much sense to me in light of His supposed omnipotence-if He's omnipotent what does He need servants for?). For instance, Mohammad was visited by an angel.

Steven Snyder · Post by **Steven Snyder** » 2005-08-04 08:09am

Junghalli wrote: They've got better things to do too.

Isn't that a bit selfish...a bit unchristian?

"Ha ha, I made it heaven...I suppose I could go on call a couple of hours a day to give advice to those on Earth that are trying to get here and avoid eternal damnation...Or I could go on a picnic with Elvis again..."

To a certain extent this seems to be the case. In a lot of religious texts its His servants doing the actual work, not God Himself (which BTW never made much sense to me in light of His supposed omnipotence-if He's omnipotent what does He need servants for?). For instance, Mohammad was visited by an angel.

Also don't forget the Sodom and Gamorrah (sic?) incident where he sent down two angels to recon the area. This is more evidence aganist the Omnipotent and Omniscence traits of god. Another internal inconsistency that is obviously intentionally put there by a benevolent god as a trap for those who have an operational mind.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-08-04 05:11pm

Steven Snyder wrote:Isn't that a bit selfish...a bit unchristian?

Not really. When you consider the sheer scale of the universe and the power and scope of the beings who are theoretically running it all it strikes me as insane human arrogance to think that we would be a high priority to them. How much thought do you generally give to the bacteria living on your floor? Because that's about how significant we would look to such entities.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2005-08-04 06:36pm

Junghalli wrote:
Steven Snyder wrote:Isn't that a bit selfish...a bit unchristian?
Not really. When you consider the sheer scale of the universe and the power and scope of the beings who are theoretically running it all it strikes me as insane human arrogance to think that we would be a high priority to them. How much thought do you generally give to the bacteria living on your floor? Because that's about how significant we would look to such entities.

Of course, for an "omnipotent" being, paying attention to us should be no problem...

FireNexus · Post by **FireNexus** » 2005-08-05 09:30am

There's a very simple answer to this question: Because he doesn't exist.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2005-08-05 01:00pm

Junghalli wrote:
Steven Snyder wrote:Isn't that a bit selfish...a bit unchristian?
Not really. When you consider the sheer scale of the universe and the power and scope of the beings who are theoretically running it all it strikes me as insane human arrogance to think that we would be a high priority to them. How much thought do you generally give to the bacteria living on your floor? Because that's about how significant we would look to such entities.

But can those bacteria even have a concept of what we are? How can you think that anything any human would ever be capable of conceiving possibly comes close to the truth about a vastly more intelligent person/species? We can't conceive how we would look to such entities any more than bacteria can conceive how they look to viruses (based on what could barely be called their 'instincts'). Superintelligent aliens are just fundamentally ineffable- pigeon religion/philosophy is limited to 'pecking->boots approaching->threat->panic->OMFG EVERYBODY SCRAM->more pecking'.

FireNexus wrote:There's a very simple answer to this question: Because he doesn't exist.

Oh ha ha. You're no fun.

To the OP: i would think his 'helpdesk' is prayer, where anything that good happens is him answering and helping, and anything bad that happens means he 'works in mysterious ways', is 'testing your faith' or 'you're not following the rules well enough, go drink some holy water'.

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2005-08-05 11:02pm

A frustrated believer goes to the Religion help desk at his local shopping centre:

Believer: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.
(there is no response)
Believer: 'Ello, Angel?
Help Desk Staff: What do you mean "Angel"?
Believer: I'm sorry, I'm a Christian. I wish to make a complaint!
Help Desk Staff: Sorry, it's my lunch break
Believer: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this messiah, that I've believed in ever since I was just a very little boy.
Staff: Oh yes, the, uh, Jebus, was it?...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?
Believer: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!
Staffr: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting.
Believer: Look, matey, I know a dead messiah when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
Staff: No no it's not dead, it's, it's restin'! Remarkable religion, Christianity, idn’t , ay? Wonderful Ceremonies!
Believer: The ceremonies don't enter into it. It's stone dead.
Staff: Nononono, no, no! It's resting!
Believer: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up! (shouting at his cross) 'Ello, Mister Jebus Christ! I've got a lovely fresh cuttle fish for you if you show...
(staff hits the cross)
Staff: There, he moved!
Believer: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the cross!
Staff: I never!!
Believer: Yes, you did!
Staff: I never, never did anything...
Believer: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) 'ELLO JEBUS!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!
(Takes Jesus off of his crucifix and thumps his head on the counter. Throws him up in the air and watches him plummet to the floor.)
Believer: Now that's what I call a dead messiah.
Staff: No, no.....No, 'e's stunned!
Believer: STUNNED?!?
Staff: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! Jebus stuns easily, major.
Believer: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That messiah is definitely deceased, and when I started believing in it no more then a few decades ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged bout of miracle working.
Staff: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the fjords.
Believer: PININ' for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got 'im home?
Staff: Jebus prefers keepin' on it's back! Remarkable religion, id'nit, squire? Lovely ceremonies!
Believer: Look, I took the liberty of examining that messiah when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its cross in the first place was that it had been NAILED there.
(pause)
Staff: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that bird down, it couldn't very well have given you salvation, now, and then where would you be? In hell that's what, and VOOM! Feeweeweewee!
Believer: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this messiah wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
Staff: No no! 'E's pining!
Believer: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This messiah is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the cross 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-MESSIAH!!
(pause)
Staff: Well, I'd better replace it, then. (he takes a quick peek behind the counter) Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh, we're right out of Jebuses.
Believer: I see. I see, I get the picture.
Staff: I got a Buddha.
(pause)
Believer: Pray, does it talk?
Staff: Nnnnot really.
Believer: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?
Staff: N-no, I guess not. (gets ashamed, looks at his feet)
Believer: Well.
(pause)
Staff: (quietly) D'you.... d'you want to come back to my place?
Believer: (looks around) Yeah, all right, sure.