What is "eurofascism"?

[xerex]

Gone are the old Soviet clients who had the odd mix of Arabism, Socialism/Marxism, and Islamism - now we see Islamicists movements that are far more "right wing", abhor all marxism, and don't give a damn about Arabism. Today's radical Islamicist has little to nothing in common with the the movements of the 60's and 70's, but is strikingly reminiscent of those from the 30's and 40's when they were outright Islamic Fascists (like the the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem).

The term is definately loaded, as is Christofacism, but there is a kernal of truth at the heart of it.

the movements of the 60's and 70's ie Nasserism and Baathism had NOTHING to do with Islam. Baathism and its relatives were blends of Arab or Pan-arab nationalsim combined with varying degrees of socialist economics.

by contrast AQ's ideology is simply Islamic revivalism writ large ie the restoration of the Caliphate. There's no need to come up with a new label. Al Qaida's philosophy is simply the Wahhabi interpretation of Islamic Fundamentalism.

The only reason to adopt the term Islamo-fascist is if you want to avoid the use of the word fundamentalist.
I also suspect that the term Islamo -fascist is an oxymoron like saying you're a Christian Communist

[felineki]

P.S Your avatar keeps reminding me of the glans of a penis.

That's Shamshel.

[tharkûn]

the movements of the 60's and 70's ie Nasserism and Baathism had NOTHING to do with Islam. Baathism and its relatives were blends of Arab or Pan-arab nationalsim combined with varying degrees of socialist economics.

Does this sound familiar? "The reconstruction of the Country through the peace and the cooperation, the realization of the democracy and the true Islamic socialism, the struggle to the Zionism and the imperialism." (poor translation, I know). It should those were the official objectives of the National Union party.

Really though I was talking more about the Qaddafi strain of thought which was pan-Arabic as well as pan-Islamicist (as stated directly in the Green Book). Remember his philosophy of Islamic socialism called for a "Saharan Islamic State" and he did send out various armed groups to acheive it.

Likewise you had the Iranian Fedayeen who were explicitly Marxist and Explicitly Islamicist in the 70's.

Frankly the Islamic world extends well beyond Syria, Iraq, Palestine, and Egypt. There were nationalistic movements, but their were also Islamicist movements. Of the latter we can clearly see those who subscribed to Islamic socialism of one type or another to those who subscribed to a more "rightwing" regressive stance.

by contrast AQ's ideology is simply Islamic revivalism writ large ie the restoration of the Caliphate. There's no need to come up with a new label. Al Qaida's philosophy is simply the Wahhabi interpretation of Islamic Fundamentalism.

By contrast only Nasserism had an Islamic component worth talking about. By contrast AQ's ideology is not socialist like Qadaffi or the Iranian Fedayeen.

One could say they are anti-democratic Islamic fundementalists, however that doesn't make a good perjorative for the soundbytes.

The only reason to adopt the term Islamo-fascist is if you want to avoid the use of the word fundamentalist.

Please. The word sounds much more impressive, has more rhetorical flair, and clearly denotes between democratic fundementalists and anti-democratic fundementalists. In any event the term was introduced using the word fundementalist.

I also suspect that the term Islamo -fascist is an oxymoron like saying you're a Christian Communist

I take it there are no people who are simulataneously Catholic and members of the communist party in Cuba? Get real. Stalin himself had the Orthodox clergy come out and bless Red Army tanks in WWII. Must I really go into the Shakers, Liberation Theology, or Winstanley's True Levellers.

Sure they aren't perfect marxist, however communism predates Marx and no society has ever been 'perfect marxists' (for instance marriage has never been completely abolished anywhere).

[Peregrin Toker]

P.S Your avatar keeps reminding me of the glans of a penis.

That's Shamshel.

In the manga, one character (forgot which one) actually says "it has a shape which women loathe" - or something like that - about Shamshel.

[xerex]

snip

puh lease , I can find quotes by Hitler claiming that being Christian is essential to being a good Nazi. and I can find where he claimed he was going to free the workers from 'interest slavery'

In practise however he tired to replace christianisty with a mystical paganism and he abolished collective bargaining and reintroduced serfdom for the peasantry.


What ever Gaddafi , Nasser and the Baath SAY, you have to look at what they DO, to know what they ARE.

in practise all those regimes are as secular as is possible in the mideast. NO religious police, equal rights for women, hell the sharia isnt even mandatory.. What ever they might say , in practice they are very far from being Islamic fundamentlists.

as for the Christian Communist part, dude you are confusing socialism with communism. Communism requires atheism. anything less and you're just a misnamed socialist. Once again you have to look at what people DO rather than what they are LABELLED.

and my main point has not been refuted. AQ is 'just' a Wahabbi Islamic revivalist group. Deadly yes, but nothing new requiring a misnomer like Islamo-fascism. Which part of their ideology is fascist by the way ?

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Communism doesn't require atheism. There were many communist jungle tribes I studied in anthropology. They believed in many gods.

[tharkûn]

puh lease , I can find quotes by Hitler claiming that being Christian is essential to being a good Nazi. and I can find where he claimed he was going to free the workers from 'interest slavery'

In practise however he tired to replace christianisty with a mystical paganism and he abolished collective bargaining and reintroduced serfdom for the peasantry.

Okay so you claim Gadaffi, Nasser, Bhutto, etc. were all just mouthing platitudes, fine prove it.

in practise all those regimes are as secular as is possible in the mideast. NO religious police, equal rights for women, hell the sharia isnt even mandatory.. What ever they might say , in practice they are very far from being Islamic fundamentlists.

I guess Turkey doesn't exist in your world and should it magicly appear it has no Islamicists.

In any event the historical practice of Sharia has been vastly different throughout the ages. At times it has actually improved women's rights and had no "religious police".

as for the Christian Communist part, dude you are confusing socialism with communism. Communism requires atheism. anything less and you're just a misnamed socialist. Once again you have to look at what people DO rather than what they are LABELLED.

'Dude' you are confusing communism with Marxism (and varients). The term "communism" originated in 1841 when Goodwyn Barmby renamed egalitarianism which in turn was an offshoot of "socialisme". There are numerous examples of Christian communities with communal economics and none which followed every commandmant of Marx.

and my main point has not been refuted. AQ is 'just' a Wahabbi Islamic revivalist group. Deadly yes, but nothing new requiring a misnomer like Islamo-fascism. Which part of their ideology is fascist by the way ?

I'm not saying the damn term is an accurate moniker. I'm saying there is a kernal of truth in the term (Islamicist groups used to run the gamut of economic policies, that is no longer the case, the Green Book school of terrorism is essentially dead). It began life as a perjorative and most likely will die as the same.

As far as what part of their ideology are fascist? Well let me quote Mussolini's nutshell definition, "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato." (Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State). Now do recall that AQ's longterm goal is a restoration of the Islamic Caliphite in one state which will enforce Sharia law and remove all unIslamic influences from the restored Caliphite (which will then go on to take over the world) - as an added bonus anyone within the Caliphite who blasphemes against Islam (by say critizing the Caliph) has a rather short life expectancy. I'm sure you can come back with your own definition of fascism, and I can reply with Franco, Salazar, or Gentile, but there never has been a good definition of fascism, even among self-proclaimed fascists. There is enough overlap in their ideals to give Islamofascist a kernal of truth and make it an effective pejorative.


Frankly I suggest you read some history before replying. You seem unable to grasp that labels are not dichotomious nor that departures from your preconceived notions were ridiciously common.

[Falkenhorst]

Generally in terms of World War 2, Eurofascism referred to those minor axis allies that were ruled by a fascist government, or had home grown fascist parties, such as Phalangist Spain, Portugal under Salazar, Mussolini's Italy, the Arrow Cross movement of Hungary, the Wallonian "Rexist" party in Belgium,the Ustache of Croatia, and the Romanian Legion of the Archangel Michael.