Robin Cook (British MP) has died.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-08-06 02:04pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4127654.stm

Former minister Robin Cook dies

Robin Cook was airlifted to hospital
Former Cabinet minister Robin Cook has died after he collapsed while out hill walking, police have said.
It is believed that he was taken ill near the summit of Ben Stack, near an area known as Laxford Bridge in north-west Scotland.

Mr Cook, 59, was flown by helicopter to Raigmore Hospital in Inverness, and is understood to have received 40 minutes of resuscitation en route.

Mr Cook quit as Commons leader in March 2003, in protest over the war in Iraq.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-08-06 02:05pm

Let the conspiracy theories commence!

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-08-06 02:13pm

Fuck. I never really liked the guy and could only see his stepping down (at the time) over Iraq as a good thing before I saw what a shambles it all was. This takes me by surprise as much as anything. Sad that one can be taken from this realm so swiftly.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2005-08-06 02:16pm

Bloody hell, I really liked him, especially after his resignation over Iraq - it showed real dignity, he stated his position and went on as normal as the local MP; compared with Claire Short who made the biggest arse of herself and lost any respect I might have had.

They used to take the piss out of him alot for being incomprehensible, but certainly in his resignation and when I've seen him on interviews after the point, I've had nothing but respect for the man.

RIP Robin Cook.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-08-06 02:54pm

Damn, I thought he was a cool guy, he was cool on Have I Got News For You, and I thought he showed severe balls when he resigned over Iraq.

RIP indeed.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-08-06 07:26pm

We lost a strong criticizer of the worst elements of the New Labour government and a truly ethical man in Parliament, by my standards anyway even if not by some other personal life centric screwballs.

RIP Robin Cook. You will be missed.

Johnny Ipcress · Post by **Johnny Ipcress** » 2005-08-06 08:20pm

The Guid wrote:We lost a strong criticizer of the worst elements of the New Labour government and a truly ethical man in Parliament, by my standards anyway even if not by some other personal life centric screwballs.

You what? Personal life-centric screwballs? I suppose Alan Clark was a truly ethical man because he only shagged around too?

This was the scene at Heathrow Airport in the late 90s, Robin and wife are heading for America. Robin's phone rings, it's Alastair Campbell.
Alastair: "Robin, the News of the World knows you're cheating on your wife. They'll print it tomorrow. You've got to choose between your wife and your mistress right now or jeopardise your career."
Robin: "Okay." (hangs up phone and turns to wife)
Robin: "Darling. I've been having an affair and now that my political career might be affected by it I'm going to make a heartless decision. Therefore, I'm leaving you and going to live with my considerably younger mistress. I will also not be going to America with you. Goodbye."

Frankly, if you're going to judge a politician just according to his political beliefs then you're an idiot. You could say George Bush is an ethical man just because he's consistent.
Besides, Cook knew he was on the way out. Leader of the House is the arse-end of the Cabinet and a significant demotion from Foreign Secretary. He was not trusted by Blair and he was very close to Brown. I think it would be supreme folly to believe that Cook's motivation was out of selfless integrity; indeed, if anything, his resignation was motivated by a realisation he was on the way out anyway and at least this way he was going to be exceptionally popular within the Party and among the people.

Of course, this statement is not to disagree with the sentiment that his death was unfortunate and that it is a sad event.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-08-06 08:24pm

I'm sorry, but my personal life isn't perfect so I can't comment on other people's quite frankly. I doubt anyone's sinless on that front anyway so I just focus on the politics.

The fact is he resigned from a Cabinet position and made his beliefs very clear and remained critical of the government's actions of the war like all the decent cabinet ministers should have done when they saw the way the country is run switched around.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2005-08-06 10:46pm

Johnny Ipcress wrote:snip

You what? Personal life-centric screwballs? I suppose Alan Clark was a truly ethical man because he only shagged around too?

snip BS

Frankly, if you're going to judge a politician just according to his political beliefs then you're an idiot. You could say George Bush is an ethical man just because he's consistent.
Besides, Cook knew he was on the way out. Leader of the House is the arse-end of the Cabinet and a significant demotion from Foreign Secretary. He was not trusted by Blair and he was very close to Brown. I think it would be supreme folly to believe that Cook's motivation was out of selfless integrity; indeed, if anything, his resignation was motivated by a realisation he was on the way out anyway and at least this way he was going to be exceptionally popular within the Party and among the people.

Of course, this statement is not to disagree with the sentiment that his death was unfortunate and that it is a sad event.

Childish Poppycock. An MP's personal life is his own so long as it does not affect his/her job performance. In that Vein, I present the example of MP Duff Cooper.

Johnny Ipcress · Post by **Johnny Ipcress** » 2005-08-07 01:15pm

The Guid wrote:I'm sorry, but my personal life isn't perfect so I can't comment on other people's quite frankly. I doubt anyone's sinless on that front anyway so I just focus on the politics.

So if your girlfriend cheats on you but remains politically consistent, she's a truly ethical person as well?
Besides, this avenue ignores the political messes he got himself in. Do you remember his vaunted 'Ethical Foreign Policy' that was ignored when he permitted the sale of weapons to Indonesia?

The fact is he resigned from a Cabinet position and made his beliefs very clear and remained critical of the government's actions of the war like all the decent cabinet ministers should have done when they saw the way the country is run switched around.

And how is that?
Besides, the point about Cook's political ambition is still relevant.

Johnny Ipcress · Post by **Johnny Ipcress** » 2005-08-07 01:20pm

Stuart Mackey wrote:Childish Poppycock. An MP's personal life is his own so long as it does not affect his/her job performance. In that Vein, I present the example of MP Duff Cooper.

Is that it? A name? So?

And are you therefore saying that a man who is immoral in his private life is going to be moral in his professional life? You have great faith in the integrity of politicians but it's naively misplaced.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2005-08-07 01:22pm

Johnny Ipcress wrote:Frankly, if you're going to judge a politician just according to his political beliefs then you're an idiot.

Yes, clearly we should judge politicians by the colour of their fucking socks, not their political beliefs, which, you know, are what we vote for them to represent in the first place.

If I've heard anything stupider than this all day, my mind has blanked it out...

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-08-07 01:22pm

*sigh*, I can't believe I am having to defend this man after his death. As the above post by Stuart Mackey points out, that's his personal life, not his political one. They are not neccessarily linked except by tabloids and I resent any implication that someone is unethical merely because of their personal life. Quite frankly, even in the above example, yes. I would still call my girlfriend ethical - just not perfect.

As for his weapons sales, I think you are simplifying the issue by suggesting he was the one who could authorise or not authorise such a thing without external pressures.

I was referring to the modern "kitchen cabinet" style of government which is Presidential and not cabinet based.

And no, your point isn't relevent. But nice try anyway.

Johnny Ipcress · Post by **Johnny Ipcress** » 2005-08-07 03:20pm

Vendetta wrote:Yes, clearly we should judge politicians by the colour of their fucking socks, not their political beliefs, which, you know, are what we vote for them to represent in the first place.

If I've heard anything stupider than this all day, my mind has blanked it out...

I'm not saying don't consider their political beliefs, just that one shouldn't glorify a philandering twat just because they saw which way the wind was blowing.
Similarly, it'd be nice to think that a person is ethical just because he's a politician and a member of a political party and thus supposed to vote in a specific way, but that's not the case.

Johnny Ipcress · Post by **Johnny Ipcress** » 2005-08-07 03:41pm

The Guid wrote:*sigh*, I can't believe I am having to defend this man after his death. As the above post by Stuart Mackey points out, that's his personal life, not his political one. They are not neccessarily linked except by tabloids and I resent any implication that someone is unethical merely because of their personal life. Quite frankly, even in the above example, yes. I would still call my girlfriend ethical - just not perfect.

So what are we then supposed to assume of politicians like Gary Condit or Arnold Schwarzeneggar? Surely a person's actions describe their character and their character is going to apply the same moral values holistically?

As for his weapons sales, I think you are simplifying the issue by suggesting he was the one who could authorise or not authorise such a thing without external pressures.

So we're to believe he was not responsible for the things he's officially responsible for? He was the Foreign Secretary after all. If he didn't agree with it, he'd have resigned, like Iraq.

I was referring to the modern "kitchen cabinet" style of government which is Presidential and not cabinet based.

And you don't like that?

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-08-07 07:01pm

So what are we then supposed to assume of politicians like Gary Condit or Arnold Schwarzeneggar? Surely a person's actions describe their character and their character is going to apply the same moral values holistically?

FS, Robin Cook had an affair where Arnold Shwarznegger has been connected to sexual harrassment and Gary Condit fell under suspicion because of allegations of witholding information from the police, slightly different matters.

So we're to believe he was not responsible for the things he's officially responsible for? He was the Foreign Secretary after all. If he didn't agree with it, he'd have resigned, like Iraq.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/indonesia/Sto ... 32,00.html Maybe this might be interesting to you, I might look for more if you are unsatisfied.

I was referring to the modern "kitchen cabinet" style of government which is Presidential and not cabinet based.

And you don't like that?

When it produces illegal wars against the grain of the people, the Diplomatic community, the International Community and International Law... yes, funnily enough. Plus there is the principle of it being intrinsically wrong because it bypasses the traditional governing system of this country.

Tags Fixed - Kev

Johnny Ipcress · Post by **Johnny Ipcress** » 2005-08-08 01:36pm

The Guid wrote:FS, Robin Cook had an affair where Arnold Shwarznegger has been connected to sexual harrassment and Gary Condit fell under suspicion because of allegations of witholding information from the police, slightly different matters.

Hardly. They're not matters of political belief or consistency, they're personal morality issues. Surely according to your beliefs, Condit and Schwarzeneggar are solid gold saints?

Maybe this might be interesting to you, I might look for more if you are unsatisfied.

This is such a token gesture. Besides, are we to assume that it's all right to sell warplanes and other weapons systems just because Indonesia starts talking about police initiatives? Are we also to assume it's all right for Robin Cook to shake President Suharto's hand?
Furthermore, Robin Cook, like many power-wannahaves, simply switched from being a proper socialist to a New Labour Blairite. That's not integrity.

When it produces illegal wars against the grain of the people, the Diplomatic community, the International Community and International Law... yes, funnily enough. Plus there is the principle of it being intrinsically wrong because it bypasses the traditional governing system of this country.

Well, one of the great things about the British political system is that it's not set in stone, so a PM can do whatever he wants. So I think it's a bit of a stretch to say it's "intrinsically wrong".
Besides what do the grains of the Diplomatic and International communities matter? And what does International Law matter?

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2005-08-08 02:01pm

has it been reported what actually killed him yet? The rumours i'm hearing are that it was a heart attack. My dad was gibbering on about all Scots having some sort of genetic heart defect, for some strange reason.

spikenigma · Post by **spikenigma** » 2005-08-08 03:05pm

Dartzap wrote:has it been reported what actually killed him yet? The rumours i'm hearing are that it was a heart attack. My dad was gibbering on about all Scots having some sort of genetic heart defect, for some strange reason.

lung cancer it said in the news

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2005-08-08 04:30pm

spikenigma wrote:
Dartzap wrote:has it been reported what actually killed him yet? The rumours i'm hearing are that it was a heart attack. My dad was gibbering on about all Scots having some sort of genetic heart defect, for some strange reason.
lung cancer it said in the news

I think you got two threads mixed up.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-08-08 07:16pm

Johnny Ipcress wrote:
Besides what do the grains of the Diplomatic and International communities matter? And what does International Law matter?

I'd reply to the rest of you post. But I'm clearly dealing with a moron here.

Johnny Ipcress · Post by **Johnny Ipcress** » 2005-08-09 01:31pm

The Guid wrote:I'd reply to the rest of you post. But I'm clearly dealing with a moron here.

I can see you're not of the Realist school then. As Thucydides said, the strong will do as they will and the weak suffer what they must.

Why don't you think about things before you reply?

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2005-08-09 02:07pm

BBC

A post-mortem examination has found former Foreign Secretary Robin Cook died of hypertensive heart disease.

The MP for Livingston collapsed and fell while hillwalking in Sutherland at the weekend.

The examination confirmed that he died from his illness rather than injuries sustained in the fall.

Mr Cook's funeral will be held at St Giles Cathedral in Edinburgh on Friday morning. Prime Minister Tony Blair is on holiday and will not attend.

The eulogy at Friday's funeral will be delivered by Chancellor Gordon Brown.

Former US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is also expected to attend.

Mr Cook, 59, was pronounced dead after being airlifted to hospital on Saturday.

He fell 8ft down a ridge near the summit of the 2,365ft Ben Stack in Sutherland.

The post-mortem examination was conducted at the Raigmore Hospital in Inverness.

Downing Street said Mr Blair was not expected to break off from his holiday for the funeral at 1100 BST and his deputy, John Prescott, will attend.

The prime minister may attend a memorial service later this year.

Mr Blair had paid tribute to Mr Cook, calling him an "outstanding, extraordinary talent".

Foreign Secretary Jack Straw described him as "the greatest parliamentarian of his generation".

Channel 4 racing pundit John McCririck accused the prime minister of snubbing the family and the memory of Mr Cook by not attending his funeral.

Mr Cook had been with his wife Gaynor when he collapsed

Mr Cook had resigned from Mr Blair's Cabinet in 2003 over the Iraq War.

Mr McCririck, a friend of horseracing fan Mr Cook for 20 years, will be among those speaking at the funeral service.

He said: "Robin's criticism of government policy was dignified, and never became personal or vindictive.

"If Margaret Thatcher can bring herself to attend Ted Heath's service, then surely Mr Blair ought, at least publicly, to show respect and gratitude to Robin."

A Crown Office statement said: "The procurator fiscal for Tain and Dornoch can confirm that a post-mortem examination following the death of Robin Cook MP has established the cause of death as hypertensive heart disease.

"Next of kin has been informed of the cause of death, and a death certificate has now been issued."

Heart disease did him in then.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-08-09 09:43pm

Johnny Ipcress wrote:
The Guid wrote:I'd reply to the rest of you post. But I'm clearly dealing with a moron here.
I can see you're not of the Realist school then. As Thucydides said, the strong will do as they will and the weak suffer what they must.

Why don't you think about things before you reply?

I guess that justifies being a schoolyard bully, invading any country that is weaker than you to steal their resources etc. does it? You're either a moron or have such opposite ideals to me to make all discussion useless.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2005-08-10 03:02am

Johnny Ipcress wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:Childish Poppycock. An MP's personal life is his own so long as it does not affect his/her job performance. In that Vein, I present the example of MP Duff Cooper.
Is that it? A name? So?

Google is your freind. Use it. But as your sence of history is weak, I shall give you a clue. Duff Cooper was First Lord of the Admiralty at the time of Munich in 1938.

And are you therefore saying that a man who is immoral in his private life is going to be moral in his professional life? You have great faith in the integrity of politicians but it's naively misplaced.

Its his private life, and as such its none of your affair unles it affects his job performance. I would dearly like to see you provide evidence to support the aboive, failing that you could grow up.