Warship Economies

[Surlethe]

Very large starships, such as the Death Star, would contain populations far greater than those in the Earth's major cities. Should such starships be permitted to develop market economies?

[SirNitram]

They're called PX's, I think.

[Aaron]

They're called PX's, I think.

Nitrams got it, most ships today have a PX or a ships store where you can buy magazines, smokes, porn etc. Or are you reffering to ships and future stations like B5 which had an internal free market econonmy?

[Vendetta]

I think he's intimating that on the kind of extra large starships we see in Sci Fi, the ship's population would be so large it could support far more than a couple of commercial outlets. The Death Star, for example, has sufficient crew and troops to fill a major modern city, and since they're not droids they can't just be switched off when they're not on duty.

Theoretically, it should be able to support a major commerce and service sector equivalent to a modern city centre for off duty personnel (more like a port and it's surrounding area than a ship)

Star Destroyers, which have a few tens of thousands of crew, would be similar.

The only times we've seen it, though, are in situations where there are civilians as well as military personnel. (B5 or Macross City)

[Dakarne]

Very large starships, such as the Death Star, would contain populations far greater than those in the Earth's major cities. Should such starships be permitted to develop market economies?

Certainly...

I can easily imagine visiting McDonalds aboard the Executor, it's a big place.

[Jalinth]

Your DS would have an odd form of economics since civilians are not welcome (would you trust Benny the liquor salesman on your ultimate weapon's platform?) So I'd expect a PX type shop where most of your day to day goods could be bought. Then you'd have your blackmarketers who distribute the intoxicatants.

B5 is a different kettle of fish since it is just a station controlled (rather than run) by the military. So here you have a free market mentality.

[Alyeska]

Given the level of protection the DS offers it is entirely possible that families of the crew members might be welcomed into a special area of the station. The DS isn't your normal warship afterall.

[SirNitram]

Given the level of protection the DS offers it is entirely possible that families of the crew members might be welcomed into a special area of the station. The DS isn't your normal warship afterall.

Competent militaries don't bring families onto warships. There is nothing to indicate this level of stupidity in the movement of personnel onboard. It's wasteful, stupid, and dangerous.

[Dakarne]

Competent militaries don't bring families onto warships. There is nothing to indicate this level of stupidity in the movement of personnel onboard. It's wasteful, stupid, and dangerous.

Especially since families are about a day away via Hyperspace.

[Alyeska]

The Death Star isn't a warship. Its more like a military base, a mobile one. And military bases can and do have civilians in them.

[Akaramu Shinja]

The Death Star isn't a warship. Its more like a military base, a mobile one. And military bases can and do have civilians in them.

So it's obviously the name that's important on allowing families and not the nature of its activities. Right.

[Alyeska]

The Death Star can not be compared with normal warships. It is an abnorality when comapred to what else the Empire has.

I was pointing out possibilities. We already know space installations can and do have civilian presences.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I think in the case of the Death Star it would be a PX^2

Seriously, though, if they want a "city" for civilians to live, couldn't they just rope off 1,000 cubic kilometers of interior volume without any trouble?

[Akaramu Shinja]

The Death Star can not be compared with normal warships. It is an abnorality when comapred to what else the Empire has.

I was pointing out possibilities. We already know space installations can and do have civilian presences.

Space installations that actively seek out enemy positions, actively engage in battle and are more than likely attached to an aggressive task force of some kind? The key point here is "actively seeking out". Static positions do not participate in military attacks. Do you want your commanders to have CIVILIAN life to worry about on one of your primary assets?

[Alyeska]

DS was more of a symbol. And it has a level of protection far in excess of any other warship.

When you have at minimum of a quarter million soldiers and uwpards of several million soldiers, its very hard for the soldiers to live such an isolated life with only other soldiers. Liberty on a station like that is going to be unheard of because it doesn't have the shuttle capacity to move even a remotely large enough number of the soldiers.

[Akaramu Shinja]

DS was more of a symbol. And it has a level of protection far in excess of any other warship.

So as a symbol. It obviously wasn't their most powerful military asset and in no way would there be any need to use it in real military operations, so hey, lets stick families on board! Because we in the Empire are big on families. Maybe they can go explore strange new worlds, and go where no man has gone before...

[SirNitram]

DS was more of a symbol. And it has a level of protection far in excess of any other warship.

When you have at minimum of a quarter million soldiers and uwpards of several million soldiers, its very hard for the soldiers to live such an isolated life with only other soldiers. Liberty on a station like that is going to be unheard of because it doesn't have the shuttle capacity to move even a remotely large enough number of the soldiers.

Allow me to beat you over the head with a few blatantly obvious problems.

Security. Resources. Fucking daycare. Civilian jobs.

The HMS Dreadnought exceeded the protection of any other warship of her time, and was a symbol. You didn't see families aboard. Because Britain wasn't a bunch of flipping retards.

[Alyeska]

They wouldn't be sending the DS against threats that can be compared with other warships. The DS could be likened more to an airbase located well away from the enemy that still has families and civilians on it while long range strikes are launched.

You need to understand the degree of isolation such a massive ship is going to have if absolutely no civilians are allowed on board. Morale will drop like a fucking rock when the troops realize liberty isn't gonna happen. It would have to have some significant entertainment facilities. It would also have to rotate the soldiers frequently which means the DS could never really opperate independently.

[Alyeska]

DS was more of a symbol. And it has a level of protection far in excess of any other warship.

When you have at minimum of a quarter million soldiers and uwpards of several million soldiers, its very hard for the soldiers to live such an isolated life with only other soldiers. Liberty on a station like that is going to be unheard of because it doesn't have the shuttle capacity to move even a remotely large enough number of the soldiers.

Allow me to beat you over the head with a few blatantly obvious problems.

Security. Resources. Fucking daycare. Civilian jobs.

The HMS Dreadnought exceeded the protection of any other warship of her time, and was a symbol. You didn't see families aboard. Because Britain wasn't a bunch of flipping retards.

The DS isn't even comparable to warships because of the massive differences.

[SirNitram]

The DS isn't even comparable to warships because of the massive differences.

Actually, it's completely comparable. You've been jabbering on about it being a warship, and yes, it is. It's an armoured, armed vessel under it's own power with a fuckton of troops. That makes it a warship. If you think this makes it somehow vastly different from, say, an aircraft carrier, you're a looney.

The 'incredible isolation' you cite is nothing more than modern navies engage in with submarines and carriers.

[Akaramu Shinja]

They wouldn't be sending the DS against threats that can be compared with other warships. The DS could be likened more to an airbase located well away from the enemy that still has families and civilians on it while long range strikes are launched.

Like our current CVNs? Don't recall many families on them.

You need to understand the degree of isolation such a massive ship is going to have if absolutely no civilians are allowed on board. Morale will drop like a fucking rock when the troops realize liberty isn't gonna happen. It would have to have some significant entertainment facilities. It would also have to rotate the soldiers frequently which means the DS could never really opperate independently.

You're basing this on what part of reality? Ships already deal with all of this, don't pretend these issues would only present themselves in SW and on the DS, in the fucking Empire.

This isn't Star Trek, they're not retarded.

[SirNitram]

They wouldn't be sending the DS against threats that can be compared with other warships. The DS could be likened more to an airbase located well away from the enemy that still has families and civilians on it while long range strikes are launched.

So it's an aircraft carrier analogue. Whoop de fuck, guess what? they don't have families on board.

You need to understand the degree of isolation such a massive ship is going to have if absolutely no civilians are allowed on board. Morale will drop like a fucking rock when the troops realize liberty isn't gonna happen. It would have to have some significant entertainment facilities. It would also have to rotate the soldiers frequently which means the DS could never really opperate independently.

The DS was never designed to operate completely independently. Why would it? It's always less than a day from it's home port, let alone any port.

[Sea Skimmer]

So it's an aircraft carrier analogue. Whoop de fuck, guess what? they don't have families on board.

US forward land airbases are also devoid of families with very few exceptions.

[wilfulton]

It is entirely possible that any civilians on board would be directly employed by the empire, much as AAFES personnel in forward bases in Iraq and Kuwait (although many of the former are in fact local nationals). Said civilians would probably have had background checks done on them, and I would surmise many would be older individuals, quite likely former or retired military themselves.

Said civilians would be cashiers at various shops on the DS, and would some smaller creature comforts to the station personnel. Many others would run recreational facilities, such as gyms, sports clubs, arcades, internet cafes, etc.

As for time away from home, I might expect that the crews would perform one year rotations, and recieve some kind of bonus pay, which they can promptly blow on beer, booze, and babes when they get back home.

[SyntaxVorlon]

All this talk about a PX on the DS and no one has mentioned Trooper Clerks? Shame.