Dark Trooper vs. Space Marine(40k)

[His Divine Shadow]

In Dark Forces the Dark Trooper blaster fire is BLUE!

Just like the big clonetrooper rifles!!!!

Heavy firepower indeed

Color doesn't matter.

[His Divine Shadow]

A bolt is essentially a 30mm HEAP rocket. A bolter fires these things. And according to the fluff, a lasgun can cut through 30cm of concrete.

A blaster rifle can make a .5m crater in stuff way hardier than ferrocrete.
Scaling up to a heavy blaster cannon gives stupid firepower on the part of the DT.
Also, whats the DT armor capable of?

[His Divine Shadow]

Also, why is the DT's armor weaker?
It can take blaster rifle fire with ease.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Also, why is the DT's armor weaker?
It can take blaster rifle fire with ease.

Never said that. Though the armor should be around the same toughness.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

A bolt is essentially a 30mm HEAP rocket. A bolter fires these things. And according to the fluff, a lasgun can cut through 30cm of concrete.

A blaster rifle can make a .5m crater in stuff way hardier than ferrocrete.
Scaling up to a heavy blaster cannon gives stupid firepower on the part of the DT.
Also, whats the DT armor capable of?

A lasgun is a standard infantry weapon.

A lascannon is a tank weapon. Go figure.

[His Divine Shadow]

A lasgun is a standard infantry weapon.

A lascannon is a tank weapon. Go figure.

The T-21 Light Repeating Blaster can take out lightly armed vehicles, it's more powerfull than the clone rifle, just sayin' go figure
The Heavy Blaster cannon on the DT.... oooh-err...

[Vympel]

A lasgun is a standard infantry weapon.

A lascannon is a tank weapon. Go figure.

The T-21 Light Repeating Blaster can take out lightly armed vehicles, it's more powerfull than the clone rifle, just sayin' go figure
The Heavy Blaster cannon on the DT.... oooh-err...

Really? So there's official proof that it is more powerful than the E-11 and not just a rapid fire support weapon? Cool. I was just making an assumption based on size!

[His Divine Shadow]

Really? So there's official proof that it is more powerful than the E-11 and not just a rapid fire support weapon? Cool. I was just making an assumption based on size!

Yup, it's in the EGW&T

[Vympel]

Really? So there's official proof that it is more powerful than the E-11 and not just a rapid fire support weapon? Cool. I was just making an assumption based on size!

Yup, it's in the EGW&T

*Mr Burns*

Exxxxxxxccccellllllllllllllennnnnnnnnnt.

I wonder if it fires blue ....

[Neko_Oni]

Awww...if we're gonna use Cyclone Missile Launchers at any point make them the funny as hell 2nd Ed versions.

It has been developed from salvo firing ship-to-ship short range killer missiles. It is loaded with twelve krak missiles, each primed for maximum concentration of fire effect. These can be fired singly or in salvos of flaming destruction

More on topic: what kind of tricks can DT pull with their dark side powers?

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Awww...if we're gonna use Cyclone Missile Launchers at any point make them the funny as hell 2nd Ed versions.

It has been developed from salvo firing ship-to-ship short range killer missiles. It is loaded with twelve krak missiles, each primed for maximum concentration of fire effect. These can be fired singly or in salvos of flaming destruction

More on topic: what kind of tricks can DT pull with their dark side powers?

IMO they have minor prescience, enough to allow them to roll with the blow or something. They have better shooting because of this prescience 9better ability to lead targets)

[DocHorror]

To be honest if the DT has force powers then its not a fair fight...

Instead of a regualr marine, it should be a DT vs a Grey Knight in that funky new Terminator armour...

That would level the playing field a little...

[NecronLord]

It would depend on the marine.

Bog standard marine.. dies
Devastator mairne with;
Heavy bolter - probably not
missile launcher - has to get the DT in one shot.
Multi Melta - probably
lascannon - yes
Plasma cannon - yes

Like I've said, I'm not exactly thrilled with Imperium plasma weapons. Things that have a 1 in 6 chance of blowing up and potentially taking the wielder with them does not thrill me. (especially with the way I tend to roll)

Ugh, It's playability there is really a far lower chance of that happening (you think they keep a stock of them for ten thousand years without being able to replace the things and they explode every sixth shot?)

(Much snipping)

in conclusion there are few SM capable of taking out the DT without kitting up. (vortex grenade anyone )

The Librarian might manage, but he has to get awfully close to use his psychic powers (going by the SM codex). the DT is quite capable of staying out of range just blasting at a Librarian from a distance with it's arsonel (and probably breaking the librarian's concentration in the process.)

GARRRHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

RANGE IS NOT SCALEABLE FROM GAMEPLAY!

in the background material they can do these things from miles away. The reason ranges are so shit in the game is so you don't need to rent a large hall to play!

[NecronLord]

(directly scaleable at any rate)

[DocHorror]

Agreed Necronlord...

Im sick of people knocking the effectivness of 40K based solely on the game mechanics.

The game has to be balanced...in 'reality' most armies would stand a chance against a Space Marine force...and a single Daemon would be able to enslave a world or even a sector...like in the fluff...

[white_rabbit]

Ugh, It's playability there is really a far lower chance of that happening (you think they keep a stock of them for ten thousand years without being able to replace the things and they explode every sixth shot?)

Indeed, and since the system is infact based off D6 rolls and max stats of 10 (in most cases) its quite an idiotic thing to take such evidence as valid facts without examining background info

Ive seen fluff that puts malfunction rates of plasma weapons from 6%-17%, possibly more, and then you have to take into account the fact that not every malfuntion, as indicated by Inquisitor is a catastrophic one, plus even more fluff info that shows that plasma weapons reliability varies, its not illogical to assume that the marines will have the best gear..

in the background material they can do these things from miles away. The reason ranges are so shit in the game is so you don't need to rent a large hall to play!

Yep, plasma rifle range is put at 1500metres by tech specs for the sponson mounted guns on a Demolisher..

The T-21 Light Repeating Blaster can take out lightly armed vehicles, it's more powerfull than the clone rifle, just sayin' go figure

The heavy bolter can take out lightly armoured vehicles..hell a bolter probably can!

go figure..


Id like some info on just how strong DT are, how fast their reaction times are, what sort of pilots they have etc. plus some info on how that jet pack works

Because if their pilot is human, the Space Marine WILL have faster reaction times, more experiance with his weapons, more aware of his capabilitys and will be trained to his peak in nigh on every imaginable combat enviroment.

He will also have a sophisticated auspex system and sensors as well as his natural superiority as a Marine.

Theres been no mention of a scenarion that I could see,

I will concede that in open ground, the weight of weaponry a DT can bring to bear will tell as will the jetpack and a vanilla marine will probably
loose,


However, in an eviron were the marine can utilise the terrain to his advantage I would back the Marine, for example, a jungle or urban location.

In close I would say a marine could literally rung rings around a DT, and a bolter shot to the head will kill most things...well, except for Carnifexs....

[His Divine Shadow]

It doesn't say about their reaction times, or anything like that, it's rather vauge, it gives them IIRC stuff like precog and better aim and possibly other goodies.

As for the armor of the thing I dunno, however, in an urban enviroment, the first thing a DT should do is to jetpack right up and get a good view above, it's heavy blaster should have multi-km range if it's anything like the clone-rifles, which BTW should be considered crap WRT firepower.

I'm at the least expecting something like this from a DT blaster:
http://hisshadow.123hostnow.com/misc/im ... _hit11.jpg

[Exonerate]

If you want to know the Dark Trooper reaction times, play Dark Forces I've played it, and the Stage III boss was a tough guy (And I was using cheats too. Shh!) I'd have to say that DT wins, hands down.

[white_rabbit]

If you want to know the Dark Trooper reaction times, play Dark Forces I've played it, and the Stage III boss was a tough guy (And I was using cheats too. Shh!) I'd have to say that DT wins, hands down.

and how exactly do your reactions compare with a marines ?

[white_rabbit]

hellooo ???

[Marcus]

That may be so, but I still think the Space Marine woul win...

I have blind faith in the Emperor

The Emperor is a weakling. A barely living corpse that can leave the Golden toilet. If he is not destroyed by the forces of Chaos, The Necrons will finish him off. The Dragon will awaken, and without Mars and the Adeptus Mechanicus left in pieces, the Imperium will be finished.

And thus fertile spawning ground for the next Hive Fleet.

Termagants. Shoot all you want, ill buy more.

[white_rabbit]

any info on the Jetpack ?

[Cpt_Frank]

Agreed Necronlord...
Im sick of people knocking the effectivness of 40K based solely on the game mechanics.

You always have this when discussing game-based universes, I had this problem in a StarCraft debate a long time ago where the guy would keep on saying how weak the Terran nukes are since they don't cause the whole map aera to melt whereas it's clearly stated in the manual they can glassify planetary surfaces....

any info on the Jetpack ?

It works just like Jango's and Boba's, although it has to be considerably more powerful (since Dark Troopers are heavier).

[NecronLord]

All in all I'd say the Dark Trooper is more dangerous. However the Marines are a more flexible trooper. IMO

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

All in all I'd say the Dark Trooper is more dangerous. However the Marines are a more flexible trooper. IMO

Marine can change from killing many infantry (Storm bolter) to killing tanks (Plasma rifle - Devastator marine). Whereas DT's big gun seems optimized toward wasting heavy armor.