Mechanism for 'pre-flood longevity of life'?

[Magnetic]

As a young lad growing up in a Christian faith, I've always heard of how many people in the old testiment lived much longer lives, such as can be found in the 5th chapter of Genesis. I was told that, before the Flood, the world was a different place (enviromentally), which caused lifespans of living things to be greatly longer than after the flood (when God chose to limit the lifespan of man to 120 years).

My question is, what would be the mechanism to cause these longetivities in life of man (and as well, animal)?

FWIW, this is where they get the theory that dinosaur bones were actually the remains of various reptiles that, becuase of the effect mentioned above, lived for hundreds of years, and because reptiles continue to grow until they die, they would have obtained great size BY living hundreds of years. . . . . .


*disclaimer - I realize that there will be many 'scoffer' remarks (understandably), but I hope to try to find some sort of (if any) scientific mechanism to cause an environment capable of sustaining life hundreds of years.

Thanks!

[SirNitram]

Realistically, there is nothing.

If you want to super-extend, bullshitting as you go, there's apparently a genetic switch which radically extends life; tests on tapeworms suggest that if applied to a human, they could live without dying of old age until 5000 or so(Thus people will stop dying of old age; 5000 years more or less guarantees you eventually get hit by a truck). Of course, this genetic switch also makes you lethargic as all hell, so it's simply not compatible with the ancient times myths.

[Shroom Man 777]

Oxygen content in the atmosphere? Anti-oxidants? Errr...

[CaptainChewbacca]

One reason I've seen is that pre-flood there was supposedly a much higher water content in the atmosphere, which made global temperatures more moderate and blocked more harmful radiation from earth.

Just a theory, mind you.

[Darth Wong]

There's a difference between randomly throwing names of mechanisms at something without a shred of empirical data and real "scientific mechanisms". This is no better than idiot creationists who use tectonic plate shifting (in absurd rates and with no apparent motivating force) to justify claims that the Earth's entire surface deformed in order to become flat during the Flood, and then sprouted mountain ranges and deep sea chasms in order to make the Flood waters recede.

[Shroom Man 777]

But with this kind of question, that's all we can do. Which is good (for us, not-so for the cretinistas)

[wolveraptor]

One reason I've seen is that pre-flood there was supposedly a much higher water content in the atmosphere, which made global temperatures more moderate and blocked more harmful radiation from earth.

Just a theory, mind you.

How is that a theory? An idiotic hypothesis, that's what it it is. Besides, harmful radiation is not what always kills a man. Simple organ failure or more cells dying than are being born can kill someone without the help of radiation.

They'd probably have to have medicinal techniques superior to those of present day doctors. You could have a method of repairing cellular DNA and have some uber-method of destroying diseases. Obviously, none fit the description of the Ole' Teste'.

[1123581321]

(when God chose to limit the lifespan of man to 120 years).

A 128 year old!

Either God fucked up or the Dominicans are lying. But I got this through a Google search and this woman wasn't the only one older than 120. So I'd guess that God just fucked up.

[NPComplete]

I heard somewhere that even if all other causes of death were eliminated, the expected lifespan would be about 250 years due to car crashes.

I'm sure some other sort of accidental death would have claimed the lives of most Methusalans if they ever existed (being thrown from a horse, choking on food).

[CaptainChewbacca]

One reason I've seen is that pre-flood there was supposedly a much higher water content in the atmosphere, which made global temperatures more moderate and blocked more harmful radiation from earth.

Just a theory, mind you.

How is that a theory? An idiotic hypothesis, that's what it it is. Besides, harmful radiation is not what always kills a man. Simple organ failure or more cells dying than are being born can kill someone without the help of radiation.

They'd probably have to have medicinal techniques superior to those of present day doctors. You could have a method of repairing cellular DNA and have some uber-method of destroying diseases. Obviously, none fit the description of the Ole' Teste'.

Its just something I read in an old book about finding Noah's ark. I'm not sure if I even got it right, I read the book in 9th grade while I was supposed to be paying attention in english class. This book postulated the flood was triggered by a massive asteroid passing too close to the earth... somehow.

[felineki]

Some of them claim that our genetic structure was "purer" back then... their reasoning being that it was created perfect, and that it degraded over time (I think I read one article that implied mixed-race breeding is somehow resposible for this). They also claim that this is what allowed all of the inbreeding that would be necessary to have all of humanity be descended from one couple occur without any problems. Reflects their mindset more than reality, since from what little I know of biology, genetic diversity is a -good- thing in terms of evolutionary progress.

[felineki]

I heard somewhere that even if all other causes of death were eliminated, the expected lifespan would be about 250 years due to car crashes.

One more good reason to avoid getting my driver's license.

[Lagmonster]

Its just something I read in an old book about finding Noah's ark. I'm not sure if I even got it right, I read the book in 9th grade while I was supposed to be paying attention in english class. This book postulated the flood was triggered by a massive asteroid passing too close to the earth... somehow.

See, that's the kind of thing people say when they know for a fact you aren't going to check to see if they're right or not.

And I've heard people tell me that their souls were once abducted from their bodies by demons.

[Chmee]

My question is, what would be the mechanism to cause these longetivities in life of man (and as well, animal)?

'Poetic license' is a great mechanism for this ... when inconsistencies in your mythology lead to mythic figures seeming to occupy implausibly long periods of history, you just explain it with improbable longevity!

Occam's Razor is your friend ... simple explanations requiring no mystical apparatus are preferable to complex ones requiring the intervention of supernatural and unobservable actors.

[Magnetic]

I'll add more to this by giving examples, in case some don't know what the ages were:

Adam lived 130 years, begat Seth, lived 800 more years and begat sons and daughters. BTW, the "begat sons and daughters" will be a given for the other examples, after the "lived ___ more years" part.
Seth lived 105 years, begat Enos, lived 807 more years....
Enos lived 90 years, begat Cainan, lived 815 more yeras....
Cainan...70...., begat Mahalaleel, ....840 more......
Mahalaleel....65 ....., begat Jared, .....830.....
Jared.....162....., begat Enoch, ....800....
Enoch....65....., begat Methuselah, ....(only) 300.....
Methuselah....187....., begat Lamech, ....782.....
Lamech......182....., begat Noah,.....595.....

It was at this time, that the life span was limited to 120 years, because of the weird and wacky passages in the first part of Genesis 6 talking about "sons of God" seing how fair the "daughters of men" were and took them for wives, plus the verse in 6:4 talking about there being giants at that time. God sees the evil, then sends the flood.

But after the flood, Noah lives another 350 years!
In Genesis 11, you have more people living longer than 120 years set by God. Not as long, but still, . . . . .

Shem - 600 years
Arphaxad - 438 years
Salah - 433 years
Eber - 464 years
Peleg - 239
Reu - 239
Serug - 230
yada
yada
yada

What I find interesting is that, not until Abraham's final age was mentioned, do we see the 'under 120'. Even his wife, Sarah, lived 127 years. What's interesting about Abraham is that in Genesis 24:1 (even though many have lived much longer than that, not much earlier before), it says that 'Abraham was old, and well stricken in age....'


Anyway, that's all I have to expound upon for this thread so far.

[Darth Wong]

Continuing in this vein of factual data which requires scientific rationalization, Yoda lived 900 years and had the ability to lift heavy objects with his mind. What scientific mechanism can explain this?

[Dooey Jo]

Perhaps they lived in an evironment where the term "year" did not mean 365.25 days

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

As a young lad growing up in a Christian faith, I've always heard of how many people in the old testiment lived much longer lives, such as can be found in the 5th chapter of Genesis. I was told that, before the Flood, the world was a different place (enviromentally), which caused lifespans of living things to be greatly longer than after the flood (when God chose to limit the lifespan of man to 120 years).

My question is, what would be the mechanism to cause these longetivities in life of man (and as well, animal)?

FWIW, this is where they get the theory that dinosaur bones were actually the remains of various reptiles that, becuase of the effect mentioned above, lived for hundreds of years, and because reptiles continue to grow until they die, they would have obtained great size BY living hundreds of years. . . . . .


*disclaimer - I realize that there will be many 'scoffer' remarks (understandably), but I hope to try to find some sort of (if any) scientific mechanism to cause an environment capable of sustaining life hundreds of years.

Thanks!

None. Absolutely positively none. If you're looking for fundamentalist wanking over various bullshit pseudoscientific ways that people could've lived 1000 years in the pre-Flood era (without substantial intervention), you're encouraged to go visit places like Rapture Ready.

People don't seem to live past 120-130 years. There are fewer than thirty supercentenarians on the entire planet. And, almost universally, they are all extremely frail and mostly helpless.

If you were to eliminate all heart disease and diabetes, and continue to improve care for the elderly (better clotbusters and the like to treat strokes), you would boost life expectancies to the eighties or the nineties. At which point people will die mostly of tumors and Alzheimers.) Effectively cure cancer and cure Alzheimers, and a person will live into their nineties and forward to the point where the natural rate of human aging will cause them to grind to a halt (this seems to happen between 110-122.) If we assume they are in exceptionally good condition, then you might get ten, twenty, even thirty years beyond 110-120 for a maximum human lifespan of 150.

To get a person to live centuries, you simply need extreme intervention of the technological variety. At the most basic, you find a way to emulate the effects of caloric-restriction (which will easily get one to 150 or 200, if studies on mice translate well to humans.) More advanced, you ruthlessly edit a person's genes to slow down their rate of aging, or somehow move the genes remaining in their mitochondria into the safety of the nucleus. (Evolution has moved all but thirteen of the mitochondrial genes into the nucleus. The ones that remain are subject to environmental damage, and a mitochondria has lost the ability to repair its genes . . . so they eventually become less efficient and stop working.) This might buy you another century. You might also develop theraputic cloning, or stem cell therapies to replace or renew parts as they wear down . . . but all of this requires technological intervention.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I'll add more to this by giving examples, in case some don't know what the ages were:
<snip>

Question: Why assume that Genesis has any substantial factual basis at all? Mythology from around the world has fantastic stories of long-lived supermen and demigods, and immortal gods, and various spirits, spectres, and a menagerie of fantastic beasts. At the absolute best, such stories were meant to convey messages and morals, and their content could be seen as largely symbolic.

[Quadlok]

Perhaps they lived in an evironment where the term "year" did not mean 365.25 days

I've always kind of assumed they mistranslated months (assuming their is any historical basis in Genenis at all). 70 is pretty damned old by premodern standards.

[Surlethe]

Continuing in this vein of factual data which requires scientific rationalization, Yoda lived 900 years and had the ability to lift heavy objects with his mind. What scientific mechanism can explain this?

Maybe the Old Testament people were Force adepts?

[Magnetic]

Perhaps they lived in an evironment where the term "year" did not mean 365.25 days

I've always kind of assumed they mistranslated months (assuming their is any historical basis in Genenis at all). 70 is pretty damned old by premodern standards.

I am thinking along the same lines. They perceived the passing of age in a different way.

Either that, or they just lengthened ages in order to allow for the generations, from Adam to Jesus, to add up and still be some 4000 or so years in between.

Of course, I'm more an more seeing the OT as a book of stories and parables; events that were not supposed to be taken as literal.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Perhaps they lived in an evironment where the term "year" did not mean 365.25 days :idea:

I've always kind of assumed they mistranslated months (assuming their is any historical basis in Genenis at all). 70 is pretty damned old by premodern standards.

There's no need to assume mistranslations. After all, most of the early Hebrew stories seem to beat on the fall of their ancestors from the graces of their god. After all, we don't assume that there was a Herakles who cleaned enormous stables in a day through clever hydrological engineering (though the place where he did it actually exists, even if the stables, Herakles, or King Augeas (the owner of the stables) never actually existed,) nor do we assume that there was actually an Achilles who could only be felled by having his heel attacked (though we don't dispute the fact that there actually seems to have been a Trojan War.)

These were oral traditions, passed from generation to generation, and usually within the context of teaching some sort of lesson. This sort of exaggeration to mythological proportions is likely to be a natural consequence of this.

[John of the Dead]

I teach junior high Sunday School (7th and 8th grade), and we focus on the stories in the Old Testament. I make a concerted effort to point out that everything before Abraham AT THE EARLIEST is simply Jewish creation myth. No literal 7-day creation, no Garden of Eden, no flood, no Tower of Babel. We focus more on the meaning behind the stories. Additionally, I point out that many of the details are exagerations as well, such as the age of people.

The thing to keep in mind about the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, is that it was written by nomadic shepards over 3,500 years ago. They had a very tenuous understanding of nature, geology, astrophysics, and biology. Treat it as Jewish mythology, take from it what works, and discard what doesn't. You'll come away from it much happier and less conflicted.

[Aaron]

I teach junior high Sunday School (7th and 8th grade), and we focus on the stories in the Old Testament. I make a concerted effort to point out that everything before Abraham AT THE EARLIEST is simply Jewish creation myth. No literal 7-day creation, no Garden of Eden, no flood, no Tower of Babel. We focus more on the meaning behind the stories. Additionally, I point out that many of the details are exagerations as well, such as the age of people.

The thing to keep in mind about the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, is that it was written by nomadic shepards over 3,500 years ago. They had a very tenuous understanding of nature, geology, astrophysics, and biology. Treat it as Jewish mythology, take from it what works, and discard what doesn't. You'll come away from it much happier and less conflicted.

So out of curiosity what do you teach them about the Bible condoning slavery and infantcide?