Why do phasers seem to be weaker in TNG and afterwards?

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2005-08-09 03:30pm

I couln't think of a better title for this, so if a mod can, change it please.

Okay, during The Original Star Trek Series pretty much everyone who got hit by a phaser was disintegrated, turned to neutrinos or something. I noticed that once TNG and following shows roll-in phasers start to leave corpses behind. Enemies suffer from large and clearly fatal wounds, but rarely are people desitegrated like in the TOS. Why is this? Clearly phasers are still capable of causing desintegration, but why don't they? On occasion the phasers even show pitifully weak firepower. In Conundrum (I think) when an alien who is posing as an officer on bridge tries to fire the Enterprise's weapons on a defenseless space station serving as someone's Command Center, Picard fires at him but the shot doesn't seem to be stopping him so Worf shoots him too. In the TOS Kirk would have disintegrated him in one shot, not requiring any extra fire from a second phaser. Hell, a double tap from a 9mm Beretta would have probably dropped him. So again, why do phasers seem to be weaker in TNG and afterwards?

Dakarne · Post by **Dakarne** » 2005-08-09 03:31pm

Simple answer:

The Federation has Pussyfied.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-08-09 03:33pm

use of lower settings. Notice how stun settings are used, even in sitations that would be highly inappropriate (such as repelling boarders).

I don't think it's occured to a lot of these guys to use the phasorize or disruptor settings...

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-08-09 03:37pm

Picard fires at him but the shot doesn't seem to be stopping him so Worf shoots him too.

We know certain species can withstand low-level stun shots, and hand phasers probably would be set on the lowest setting unless in an emergency.

Clearly phasers are still capable of causing desintegration, but why don't they?

Perhaps the phasers were further refined, from a handful of settings in the TOS era to a wider array of options in TNG+. Why waste energy phasorising your target when you can drop him with lower-powered shots ?

Notice how stun settings are used, even in sitations that would be highly inappropriate (such as repelling boarders).

Somehow, firing high-powered phaser shots inside a starship strikes me as a rather dumb move. Hard vacuum, even for a few seconds, can be a bitch.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-08-09 03:48pm

Political correctness and reform. It seems highly unlikely that a military establishment would give up more powerful weapons unless they were directed to by their political superiors. DW's Insurrection page notes on the Worfzooka is a good example. There's no reason to use such a clumsy weapon unless you require that it be guided and discriminate in its targeting.

Phasers were probably deemed too dangerous and powered down over successive years. This may be a recent innovation, given that Geordi gives inaccurate information in "Deja Q" about how a phaser can take out a whole army of musket-carrying men, and that obviously is not the case, so Geordi is probably quoting what he learned in the academy rather than using his brain and realizing his hand phaser is nerfed.

Brian

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-08-09 03:58pm

IIRC some non-canon suggests that TOS Type-2s had 16 settings as well TNG type-2 (and this may be comfirmed by ENT), but what I belive is during the less politically correct TOS era Phasers were set either stun or Vaporize/Phasorize (aka That definetly dead) while TNG+ uses Stun or Kill (which may be surviveble if the hit isn't direct) and sometimes Phasorize when you must be absolutly 100% sure that thing is dead.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-08-09 04:09pm

Phasers were probably deemed too dangerous and powered down over successive years.

Except they weren't, and TNG phasers are more then capable of the same tricks as TOS phasers, right down to full phasorisation.

This may be a recent innovation, given that Geordi gives inaccurate information in "Deja Q" about how a phaser can take out a whole army of musket-carrying men, and that obviously is not the case, so Geordi is probably quoting what he learned in the academy rather than using his brain and realizing his hand phaser is nerfed.

Or he may be right, and the ZOMG PHASORS R T3H SUCK crows goes to ridiculous lenghts to discredit it.

Just an idea...

while TNG+ uses Stun or Kill (which may be surviveble if the hit isn't direct) and sometimes Phasorize when you must be absolutly 100% sure that thing is dead.

TM gives a dozen or so settings, from "tickle" (litterally - a setting that causes mild discomfort) to full phasorisation.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-08-09 04:13pm

Bounty wrote:
while TNG+ uses Stun or Kill (which may be surviveble if the hit isn't direct) and sometimes Phasorize when you must be absolutly 100% sure that thing is dead.
TM gives a dozen or so settings, from "tickle" (litterally - a setting that causes mild discomfort) to full phasorisation.

the TM ain't canon so, it doesn't matter but we know that TNG phaser have at least 16 settings (Worf uses that setting in one TNG episode (the one were Picard gets captured by the Cardassian).

Dakarne · Post by **Dakarne** » 2005-08-09 04:13pm

TM gives a dozen or so settings, from "tickle" (litterally - a setting that causes mild discomfort) to full phasorisation.

In the First Contact novel the hand Phaser Lily was threatening Picard with was on lowest setting (instead of highest in the film), he says that he would have gotten a "Nasty Rash"

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-08-09 04:15pm

the TM ain't canon

Why thank you, I did not know that

Since this isn't a vs debate, I thought I'd mention it - it was used while making the series, after all. Background info can be very revealing.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-08-09 04:19pm

Bounty wrote:Except they weren't, and TNG phasers are more then capable of the same tricks as TOS phasers, right down to full phasorisation.

A pic was posted awhile back by Tuxedo, let me see if I can dig it up...

There was a lengthy discussion awhile back here. We didn't see this kind of firepower until Nemesis, and even the door Picard shot open seemed to be made of brittle material which fragmented, while this is an engineering bulkhead melted.

Or he may be right, and the ZOMG PHASORS R T3H SUCK crows goes to ridiculous lenghts to discredit it.

Just an idea...

No. I'm surprised this is coming from you Bounty seeing how you're well versed in Star Trek lore. Tracey was able to down thousands of Yangs with his hand phaser. Most probably, he did this by firing and sweeping his beam side to side. AR-558 shows that the TNG/DS9 Federation does not retain this capability on their phasers. Not only that, ENT era phasers can fire 10 MJ shots while TNG phaser rifles use ammunition at a rate of 1.05 MW. Phasers have definitely been powered down. If Geordi was right, how come Sisko at a chokepoint with hardened Federation marines wasn't able to hold off the Jem'Hadar baffoons? Obviously the rate of fire has decreased, and the power as well given examples like packing crates.

Brian

Dakarne · Post by **Dakarne** » 2005-08-09 04:23pm

It seems as if Hand Phasers have truly gone downhill...

Sort of makes you wonder why we're still using TNG Era versus Star Wars... it's obvious that Kirk would do much better

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-08-09 04:31pm

Dakarne wrote:
TM gives a dozen or so settings, from "tickle" (litterally - a setting that causes mild discomfort) to full phasorisation.
In the First Contact novel the hand Phaser Lily was threatening Picard with was on lowest setting (instead of highest in the film), he says that he would have gotten a "Nasty Rash"

And in the movie the phaser was on the highest setting and Picard told Lily it would have vaporized him.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-08-09 04:31pm

No.

[snip arguments]

I guess it's more an SoD problem for me. I find it more plausibile that the examples of phaser firepower in TOS were top-of-the-scale, while those of TNG+ were closer to the bottom, rather the accept that an otherwise competent engineer would be so wildly in error.

But, since this position would be untenable in debate, I withdraw the comment.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-08-09 04:31pm

Dakarne wrote:Simple answer:

The Federation has Pussyfied.

Don't make such assinine comments again. Its against PST rules.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-08-09 04:33pm

if nthe TOS Phaser has any other setting other than kill or stun the characters never use it.

Dakarne · Post by **Dakarne** » 2005-08-09 04:33pm

And in the movie the phaser was on the highest setting and Picard told Lily it would have vaporized him.

Yes, I know this, I was merely pointing out that it said that in the novel.

Don't make such assinine comments again. Its against PST rules

I apologize

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-08-09 04:35pm

if nthe TOS Phaser has any other setting other than kill or stun the characters never use it.

"Heat rocks" may be the third setting. Or is the energy required to do this equal to either of the other settings ?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-08-09 04:54pm

In Conundrum (I think) when an alien who is posing as an officer on bridge tries to fire the Enterprise's weapons on a defenseless space station serving as someone's Command Center, Picard fires at him but the shot doesn't seem to be stopping him so Worf shoots him too. In the TOS Kirk would have disintegrated him in one shot, not requiring any extra fire from a second phaser. Hell, a double tap from a 9mm Beretta would have probably dropped him. So again, why do phasers seem to be weaker in TNG and afterwards?

Their phasers were most likely set to stun, especially as he survived. Some creatures have shown resistance to phaser stun. Hell, humans can resist stun if they have a Conspiracy neck-bug in them.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-08-09 05:05pm

Bounty wrote:
if nthe TOS Phaser has any other setting other than kill or stun the characters never use it.
"Heat rocks" may be the third setting. Or is the energy required to do this equal to either of the other settings ?

Who has used it for that other than McCoy? It is not the same setting as kill and it was done with a type 1 concelled phaser sidearm.

Said sidearm snapped into the type two phaser prop amost acting as the core firing mechanism of the weapon the pistol enhacing its firepower or amunition capacity.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-08-09 05:08pm

Who has used it for that other than McCoy? It is not the same setting as kill and it was done with a type 1 concelled phaser sidearm.

Chekov, in Spock's Brain, and that was with a Type II.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-08-09 05:21pm

They also used phasers to heat rocks in TOS The Enemy Within, and also in TNG Silicon Avatar.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2005-08-09 05:58pm

Uraniun235 wrote:Their phasers were most likely set to stun, especially as he survived.

He did? I could have sworn the guy was turned to charcoal.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-08-09 06:19pm

No, what you're remembering is his true apperance being briefly revealed.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2005-08-09 10:59pm

Phasers in TNG and onward are always set to power level one unless more bang is needed as SOP. This is probably the result of politics, though why it often doesn't occur to the characters to up the power level is anybody's guess.

In the episode that Riker thought he was going crazy but was really being mind probed, he makes some statement like "this phaser's on level 15(?), at the setting, it will destroy this whole building!" Of course, it's possible that he was either bluffing or just really out of it when he said that. It seems like a lot of power for every Joe Redshirt to be packing, especially in the TNG era.

Hand phasers can be wildly inconsistant when the plot calls for it, though. Like when there was apparently no stun setting for Riker to stop that blond Acamarian woman with and he had to vaporize her...