Why do phasers seem to be weaker in TNG and afterwards?
Moderator: Vympel
-
- Sith Marauder
- Posts: 4736
- Joined: 2005-05-18 01:31am
Why do phasers seem to be weaker in TNG and afterwards?
I couln't think of a better title for this, so if a mod can, change it please.
Okay, during The Original Star Trek Series pretty much everyone who got hit by a phaser was disintegrated, turned to neutrinos or something. I noticed that once TNG and following shows roll-in phasers start to leave corpses behind. Enemies suffer from large and clearly fatal wounds, but rarely are people desitegrated like in the TOS. Why is this? Clearly phasers are still capable of causing desintegration, but why don't they? On occasion the phasers even show pitifully weak firepower. In Conundrum (I think) when an alien who is posing as an officer on bridge tries to fire the Enterprise's weapons on a defenseless space station serving as someone's Command Center, Picard fires at him but the shot doesn't seem to be stopping him so Worf shoots him too. In the TOS Kirk would have disintegrated him in one shot, not requiring any extra fire from a second phaser. Hell, a double tap from a 9mm Beretta would have probably dropped him. So again, why do phasers seem to be weaker in TNG and afterwards?
Okay, during The Original Star Trek Series pretty much everyone who got hit by a phaser was disintegrated, turned to neutrinos or something. I noticed that once TNG and following shows roll-in phasers start to leave corpses behind. Enemies suffer from large and clearly fatal wounds, but rarely are people desitegrated like in the TOS. Why is this? Clearly phasers are still capable of causing desintegration, but why don't they? On occasion the phasers even show pitifully weak firepower. In Conundrum (I think) when an alien who is posing as an officer on bridge tries to fire the Enterprise's weapons on a defenseless space station serving as someone's Command Center, Picard fires at him but the shot doesn't seem to be stopping him so Worf shoots him too. In the TOS Kirk would have disintegrated him in one shot, not requiring any extra fire from a second phaser. Hell, a double tap from a 9mm Beretta would have probably dropped him. So again, why do phasers seem to be weaker in TNG and afterwards?
We know certain species can withstand low-level stun shots, and hand phasers probably would be set on the lowest setting unless in an emergency.Picard fires at him but the shot doesn't seem to be stopping him so Worf shoots him too.
Perhaps the phasers were further refined, from a handful of settings in the TOS era to a wider array of options in TNG+. Why waste energy phasorising your target when you can drop him with lower-powered shots ?Clearly phasers are still capable of causing desintegration, but why don't they?
Somehow, firing high-powered phaser shots inside a starship strikes me as a rather dumb move. Hard vacuum, even for a few seconds, can be a bitch.Notice how stun settings are used, even in sitations that would be highly inappropriate (such as repelling boarders).
Political correctness and reform. It seems highly unlikely that a military establishment would give up more powerful weapons unless they were directed to by their political superiors. DW's Insurrection page notes on the Worfzooka is a good example. There's no reason to use such a clumsy weapon unless you require that it be guided and discriminate in its targeting.
Phasers were probably deemed too dangerous and powered down over successive years. This may be a recent innovation, given that Geordi gives inaccurate information in "Deja Q" about how a phaser can take out a whole army of musket-carrying men, and that obviously is not the case, so Geordi is probably quoting what he learned in the academy rather than using his brain and realizing his hand phaser is nerfed.
Brian
Phasers were probably deemed too dangerous and powered down over successive years. This may be a recent innovation, given that Geordi gives inaccurate information in "Deja Q" about how a phaser can take out a whole army of musket-carrying men, and that obviously is not the case, so Geordi is probably quoting what he learned in the academy rather than using his brain and realizing his hand phaser is nerfed.
Brian
- Lord Revan
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 12229
- Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
- Location: Zone:classified
IIRC some non-canon suggests that TOS Type-2s had 16 settings as well TNG type-2 (and this may be comfirmed by ENT), but what I belive is during the less politically correct TOS era Phasers were set either stun or Vaporize/Phasorize (aka That definetly dead) while TNG+ uses Stun or Kill (which may be surviveble if the hit isn't direct) and sometimes Phasorize when you must be absolutly 100% sure that thing is dead.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
Except they weren't, and TNG phasers are more then capable of the same tricks as TOS phasers, right down to full phasorisation.Phasers were probably deemed too dangerous and powered down over successive years.
Or he may be right, and the ZOMG PHASORS R T3H SUCK crows goes to ridiculous lenghts to discredit it.This may be a recent innovation, given that Geordi gives inaccurate information in "Deja Q" about how a phaser can take out a whole army of musket-carrying men, and that obviously is not the case, so Geordi is probably quoting what he learned in the academy rather than using his brain and realizing his hand phaser is nerfed.
Just an idea...
TM gives a dozen or so settings, from "tickle" (litterally - a setting that causes mild discomfort) to full phasorisation.while TNG+ uses Stun or Kill (which may be surviveble if the hit isn't direct) and sometimes Phasorize when you must be absolutly 100% sure that thing is dead.
- Lord Revan
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 12229
- Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
- Location: Zone:classified
the TM ain't canon so, it doesn't matter but we know that TNG phaser have at least 16 settings (Worf uses that setting in one TNG episode (the one were Picard gets captured by the Cardassian).Bounty wrote:TM gives a dozen or so settings, from "tickle" (litterally - a setting that causes mild discomfort) to full phasorisation.while TNG+ uses Stun or Kill (which may be surviveble if the hit isn't direct) and sometimes Phasorize when you must be absolutly 100% sure that thing is dead.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
In the First Contact novel the hand Phaser Lily was threatening Picard with was on lowest setting (instead of highest in the film), he says that he would have gotten a "Nasty Rash"TM gives a dozen or so settings, from "tickle" (litterally - a setting that causes mild discomfort) to full phasorisation.
A pic was posted awhile back by Tuxedo, let me see if I can dig it up...Bounty wrote:Except they weren't, and TNG phasers are more then capable of the same tricks as TOS phasers, right down to full phasorisation.
There was a lengthy discussion awhile back here. We didn't see this kind of firepower until Nemesis, and even the door Picard shot open seemed to be made of brittle material which fragmented, while this is an engineering bulkhead melted.
No. I'm surprised this is coming from you Bounty seeing how you're well versed in Star Trek lore. Tracey was able to down thousands of Yangs with his hand phaser. Most probably, he did this by firing and sweeping his beam side to side. AR-558 shows that the TNG/DS9 Federation does not retain this capability on their phasers. Not only that, ENT era phasers can fire 10 MJ shots while TNG phaser rifles use ammunition at a rate of 1.05 MW. Phasers have definitely been powered down. If Geordi was right, how come Sisko at a chokepoint with hardened Federation marines wasn't able to hold off the Jem'Hadar baffoons? Obviously the rate of fire has decreased, and the power as well given examples like packing crates.Or he may be right, and the ZOMG PHASORS R T3H SUCK crows goes to ridiculous lenghts to discredit it.
Just an idea...
Brian
And in the movie the phaser was on the highest setting and Picard told Lily it would have vaporized him.Dakarne wrote:In the First Contact novel the hand Phaser Lily was threatening Picard with was on lowest setting (instead of highest in the film), he says that he would have gotten a "Nasty Rash"TM gives a dozen or so settings, from "tickle" (litterally - a setting that causes mild discomfort) to full phasorisation.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
I guess it's more an SoD problem for me. I find it more plausibile that the examples of phaser firepower in TOS were top-of-the-scale, while those of TNG+ were closer to the bottom, rather the accept that an otherwise competent engineer would be so wildly in error.No.
[snip arguments]
But, since this position would be untenable in debate, I withdraw the comment.
Don't make such assinine comments again. Its against PST rules.Dakarne wrote:Simple answer:
The Federation has Pussyfied.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
- Isolder74
- Official SD.Net Ace of Cakes
- Posts: 6762
- Joined: 2002-07-10 01:16am
- Location: Weber State of Construction University
- Contact:
if nthe TOS Phaser has any other setting other than kill or stun the characters never use it.
Hapan Battle Dragons Rule!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
- Uraniun235
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 13772
- Joined: 2002-09-12 12:47am
- Location: OREGON
- Contact:
Their phasers were most likely set to stun, especially as he survived. Some creatures have shown resistance to phaser stun. Hell, humans can resist stun if they have a Conspiracy neck-bug in them.In Conundrum (I think) when an alien who is posing as an officer on bridge tries to fire the Enterprise's weapons on a defenseless space station serving as someone's Command Center, Picard fires at him but the shot doesn't seem to be stopping him so Worf shoots him too. In the TOS Kirk would have disintegrated him in one shot, not requiring any extra fire from a second phaser. Hell, a double tap from a 9mm Beretta would have probably dropped him. So again, why do phasers seem to be weaker in TNG and afterwards?
- Isolder74
- Official SD.Net Ace of Cakes
- Posts: 6762
- Joined: 2002-07-10 01:16am
- Location: Weber State of Construction University
- Contact:
Who has used it for that other than McCoy? It is not the same setting as kill and it was done with a type 1 concelled phaser sidearm.Bounty wrote:"Heat rocks" may be the third setting. Or is the energy required to do this equal to either of the other settings ?if nthe TOS Phaser has any other setting other than kill or stun the characters never use it.
Said sidearm snapped into the type two phaser prop amost acting as the core firing mechanism of the weapon the pistol enhacing its firepower or amunition capacity.
Hapan Battle Dragons Rule!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
- Uraniun235
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 13772
- Joined: 2002-09-12 12:47am
- Location: OREGON
- Contact:
-
- Sith Marauder
- Posts: 4736
- Joined: 2005-05-18 01:31am
- Uraniun235
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 13772
- Joined: 2002-09-12 12:47am
- Location: OREGON
- Contact:
Phasers in TNG and onward are always set to power level one unless more bang is needed as SOP. This is probably the result of politics, though why it often doesn't occur to the characters to up the power level is anybody's guess.
In the episode that Riker thought he was going crazy but was really being mind probed, he makes some statement like "this phaser's on level 15(?), at the setting, it will destroy this whole building!" Of course, it's possible that he was either bluffing or just really out of it when he said that. It seems like a lot of power for every Joe Redshirt to be packing, especially in the TNG era.
Hand phasers can be wildly inconsistant when the plot calls for it, though. Like when there was apparently no stun setting for Riker to stop that blond Acamarian woman with and he had to vaporize her...
In the episode that Riker thought he was going crazy but was really being mind probed, he makes some statement like "this phaser's on level 15(?), at the setting, it will destroy this whole building!" Of course, it's possible that he was either bluffing or just really out of it when he said that. It seems like a lot of power for every Joe Redshirt to be packing, especially in the TNG era.
Hand phasers can be wildly inconsistant when the plot calls for it, though. Like when there was apparently no stun setting for Riker to stop that blond Acamarian woman with and he had to vaporize her...
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader