Why do phasers seem to be weaker in TNG and afterwards?

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2005-08-10 12:03am

Trogdor wrote:Hand phasers can be wildly inconsistant when the plot calls for it, though. Like when there was apparently no stun setting for Riker to stop that blond Acamarian woman with and he had to vaporize her...

If this is from "The Vengence Factor" as I think it is, then you are mistaken. Riker tried two stun settings before vaporizing her, her genetic modifications apparently allowed her to resist even maximum stun.

Jarl Sven · Post by **Jarl Sven** » 2005-08-10 12:05am

Isolder74 wrote:
Bounty wrote:
if nthe TOS Phaser has any other setting other than kill or stun the characters never use it.
"Heat rocks" may be the third setting. Or is the energy required to do this equal to either of the other settings ?
Who has used it for that other than McCoy? It is not the same setting as kill and it was done with a type 1 concelled phaser sidearm. ......

Rand also used a phaser to make coffee in The Corbomite Maneuver
so there may be a forth setting

They didn't show it on screen but IIRC she referred to it as "zap"

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2005-08-10 12:11am

As I recall Kirk ordered a "Disrupt B" setting once, presumably there is a "Disrupt A" too. That makes perhaps 2/3 stun settings, kill, heat rocks, and (if my memory is not playing tricks) at least 2 disrupt settings.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-08-10 06:36am

Bounty wrote:"Heat rocks" may be the third setting. Or is the energy required to do this equal to either of the other settings ?

In "Conscience Of The King", Kodos' daughter accidentally shot him with a phaser and killed him, and he didn't disintegrate.

In "The Naked Time", Scotty used a phaser to cut open the bulkhead near Engineering's doors to get them open.

A humanoid creature was killed by phaser fire in "Miri" as well, and didn't disintegrate. Although my memory is sketchy on this one. Did they use stun, and kill him anyway? (He was diseased and weak.)

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-08-10 09:05am

brianeyci wrote:This may be a recent innovation, given that Geordi gives inaccurate information in "Deja Q" about how a phaser can take out a whole army of musket-carrying men, and that obviously is not the case, so Geordi is probably quoting what he learned in the academy rather than using his brain and realizing his hand phaser is nerfed.

If he used the 'phaser-beam-sweeping' of TOS, that might well be possible.

teleguy · Post by **teleguy** » 2005-08-10 09:59am

brianeyci wrote:

No. I'm surprised this is coming from you Bounty seeing how you're well versed in Star Trek lore. Tracey was able to down thousands of Yangs with his hand phaser. Most probably, he did this by firing and sweeping his beam side to side. AR-558 shows that the TNG/DS9 Federation does not retain this capability on their phasers.

Brian

In Arsenal of Freedom they were perfectly capable of firing sustained beams and sweeping them side to side.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-08-10 10:20am

teleguy wrote:
brianeyci wrote:

No. I'm surprised this is coming from you Bounty seeing how you're well versed in Star Trek lore. Tracey was able to down thousands of Yangs with his hand phaser. Most probably, he did this by firing and sweeping his beam side to side. AR-558 shows that the TNG/DS9 Federation does not retain this capability on their phasers.

Brian
In Arsenal of Freedom they were perfectly capable of firing sustained beams and sweeping them side to side.

They must have gotten rid of this ability on their rifles, or maybe their rifles couldn't do this in the first place. I remember the episode, with Yar and Data firing on the drone. Unfortunately, in TNG "Rascals", Worf's phaser cut off several seconds after firing, long enough for a ducking Ferengi to avoid the sweeping. If Tracey's phaser had cut off like that fighting Yangs, he wouldn't have been able to kill thousands of them. Perhaps TNG+ Type-II's can only fire in short bursts, meaning you can sweep but only for a few seconds, making sweeping nearly useless except at extremely short ranges like in Arsenal.

Brian

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2005-08-10 10:10pm

The Silence and I wrote:
Trogdor wrote:Hand phasers can be wildly inconsistant when the plot calls for it, though. Like when there was apparently no stun setting for Riker to stop that blond Acamarian woman with and he had to vaporize her...
If this is from "The Vengence Factor" as I think it is, then you are mistaken. Riker tried two stun settings before vaporizing her, her genetic modifications apparently allowed her to resist even maximum stun.

Ah, I stand corrected, then.

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2005-08-10 10:56pm

What about ST VI's "phaser on stun at close range = a hole through you"? How close is "close range"?

I also recall "heavy stun" mentioned in TNG at least once.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-08-11 12:42am

What? Where did we see phaser on stun produce holes in people? The two Enterprise assassins that were killed had what looked like very bad bruises on their heads. My guess would be that it was heavy stun, point-blank, and right in the head.

Heavy stun was mentioned in TNG The Hunted.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2005-08-11 01:42am

Uraniun235 wrote:What? Where did we see phaser on stun produce holes in people? The two Enterprise assassins that were killed had what looked like very bad bruises on their heads. My guess would be that it was heavy stun, point-blank, and right in the head.

Presumably Skylon refers to the dismembering effect the assassins' phasers had on the Klingons aboard IKS Quo'noS 1 rather than the assassins' own deaths. The novelization calls them illegal "burning phasers."

TurboPhaser · Post by **TurboPhaser** » 2005-08-11 08:54am

Trogdor wrote:Phasers in TNG and onward are always set to power level one unless more bang is needed as SOP. This is probably the result of politics, though why it often doesn't occur to the characters to up the power level is anybody's guess.

In the episode that Riker thought he was going crazy but was really being mind probed, he makes some statement like "this phaser's on level 15(?), at the setting, it will destroy this whole building!" Of course, it's possible that he was either bluffing or just really out of it when he said that. It seems like a lot of power for every Joe Redshirt to be packing, especially in the TNG era.

Hand phasers can be wildly inconsistant when the plot calls for it, though. Like when there was apparently no stun setting for Riker to stop that blond Acamarian woman with and he had to vaporize her...

I think he was regaining his sanity at that point, after realising it was all a deception. He may have been bluffing, but we had no indication of this whatsoever. 15 very may have been able to blow the building up and by FC era, the phasers had been altered/settings changed so that 15/16 was vaporize person and 'destroy building' setting was considered a bad idea for a hand phaser on a starship.

I believe Riker shot that woman at least twice on lower settings and it did nothing. He had to vaporise her.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-08-11 09:00am

15 very may have been able to blow the building up and by FC era, the phasers had been altered/settings changed so that 15/16 was vaporize person and 'destroy building' setting was considered a bad idea for a hand phaser on a starship.

Is setting 16 explicitly mentioned in FC ? I don't recall Picard mentioning a specific setting, only that the blast would've vaporised him.

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2005-08-11 11:33am

Publius wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:What? Where did we see phaser on stun produce holes in people? The two Enterprise assassins that were killed had what looked like very bad bruises on their heads. My guess would be that it was heavy stun, point-blank, and right in the head.
Presumably Skylon refers to the dismembering effect the assassins' phasers had on the Klingons aboard IKS Quo'noS 1 rather than the assassins' own deaths. The novelization calls them illegal "burning phasers."

Yeah, that is what I was referring to. After Gorkon's shot and we see his body tumbling in zero-g it looks like he as an exit wound, clean through his chest.

Not to mention the Klingon who got his arm shot off.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-08-11 11:34am

That is most certainly not a stun setting.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-08-11 01:39pm

Bounty wrote:
15 very may have been able to blow the building up and by FC era, the phasers had been altered/settings changed so that 15/16 was vaporize person and 'destroy building' setting was considered a bad idea for a hand phaser on a starship.
Is setting 16 explicitly mentioned in FC ? I don't recall Picard mentioning a specific setting, only that the blast would've vaporised him.

I think Picard only says max setting. He doesn't give a setting number.