Kansas Board Advances a Draft Critical of Evolution
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: August 10, 2005
TOPEKA, Kan., Aug. 9 (AP) - The State Board of Education has approved the latest draft of science standards that include greater criticism of evolution.
The board approved the draft on Tuesday by a vote to 6 to 4. It then voted to send it to be reviewed by outside academics. The board is expected to give its final approval in October.
The draft says the board is not advocating the teaching of "intelligent design," which contends that some features of the natural world are best explained by an intelligent creator, not evolution. But the language favored by the board does come from advocates of intelligent design.
In a debate on Tuesday, board members opposed to the draft said religion had no place in the science classroom.
"When mainstream science accepts this, we can put them in science classes," said Janet Waugh, who voted against the latest draft of the standards.
Proponents of the draft said they wanted a more balanced view of evolution and cited testimony from a hearing in May featuring advocates of intelligent design.
Kathy Martin, the newest board member and a former science teacher, said that opponents of the draft were overreacting and that Kansas was not going to lose any jobs or technological advancements because evolution was given a critical eye.
"I hope you guys can realize it's not going to be the end of the world," Ms. Martin said. "I hope you will try to be more open-minded."
The standards are used to develop state tests for 4th, 7th and 10th graders, with local schools having the final say on what is taught in their classrooms. Students will be tested on the new standards in the 2007-8 school year.
In 1999 the Kansas board drew international attention when it deleted most references to evolution from its science standards. Elections the next year resulted in a less conservative board, which led to the current, evolution-friendly standards. Conservatives recaptured the board's majority in the 2004 elections.
Why can't they just leave well enough alone
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Kathy Martin, the newest board member and a former science teacher, said that opponents of the draft were overreacting and that Kansas was not going to lose any jobs or technological advancements because evolution was given a critical eye.
When did Kansas ever have many jobs outside agriculture?
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
Kathy Martin, the newest board member and a former science teacher, said that opponents of the draft were overreacting and that Kansas was not going to lose any jobs or technological advancements because evolution was given a critical eye.
When did Kansas ever have many jobs outside agriculture?
Baptist ministers remember. IIRC Kansas is the unofficial capital of the Baptist sect of Christianity.
Board of Education seems somewhat oxymoronic nowadays in Kansas. I was debating such a topic with someone on AIM the other night and mentioned the shift of that Toyota plant to Canadia and the lack of high literacy and science and engineering graduates there. Apparently, according to this girl, such states never needed such graduates anyway (they must import science and engineering down there) and the Toyota plant deal was to do with socialised health insurance in Canada being cheap.
I thought it was because these states are flagrantly backwards, but what do I, a "nationalistic atheist Brit", know?
wolveraptor wrote:When did Kansas ever have many jobs outside agriculture?
many large corporations are based on the KS side of the metro Kansas city region e.g. Overland Park
Sprint (a large player in the telecommunications field) and Black & Veatch (one of the world's largest engineering firms and my former employer) to name just two
and Johnson County Kansas is one of the richest in the nation
so this isn't just a few rubes on the farm thumbing their noses at some fancy talking city folk and their monkey ideas
this is a region that is supposed to attract and retain technically skilled and literate people
personally I fear for the nation
I suggest that all of you who are US citizens to write to the president and explain to him the errors of his position...I know I’m going to.
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty
I just might have some thing to say -F. Zappa
I suggest that all of you who are US citizens to write to the president and explain to him the errors of his position...I know I’m going to.
I've a better idea. I'll save the postage and apply it towards my next purchase of a grilled chicken sandwich. That will accomplish more, both in terms of increasing my happiness and in stimulating the economy.
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
I suggest that all of you who are US citizens to write to the president and explain to him the errors of his position...I know I’m going to.
I've a better idea. I'll save the postage and apply it towards my next purchase of a grilled chicken sandwich. That will accomplish more, both in terms of increasing my happiness and in stimulating the economy.
that might work too
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty
I just might have some thing to say -F. Zappa
Kathy Martin, the newest board member and a former science teacher, said that opponents of the draft were overreacting and that Kansas was not going to lose any jobs or technological advancements because evolution was given a critical eye.
"I hope you guys can realize it's not going to be the end of the world," Ms. Martin said. "I hope you will try to be more open-minded."
OPEN FUCKING MINDED? Ha that's a good one. Unbelievable, a former science teacher who's quite happy to destroy her profession by filling the curiculum with anti-scientific bullshit and then has the nerve to tell people they should be more open minded.....
Unsuprisingly, the Kansas BoE members who oppose evolution are from rural areas in western Kansas, whereas those supporting evolution are from suburban or urban eastern Kansas. Maybe eastern Kansas should secede from the rest of Kansas. Western Kansas just drains the tax dollars paid by eastern Kansans, fucks up our schools, and makes the entire state look like a fundamentalist shithole.
Do teachers have to teach "intelligent design" and/or "creationism" or just "alternatives to evolution"? Because if it is the latter option, then there is a very easy way around it.
PROF: Okay students, according to the new curriculum I'm supposed to discuss "alternatives" to evolution. Now, there are hundreds of alternative views of what created life on this planet, most of them religious. I wish to note that none of this meets the burden of proof requirements to be widely accepted by the scientific community as valid, nevermind correct, theories, and thus be competitors for Theory of Evolution. Now since there are so many of this "alternatives" and there is a lot of material we still have to cover, we will only be studying three of them. The papers that Jimmy has passed around to you have three different stories, the first of which is entirely optional material. You don't have to read it if you don't want it, they are The Cosmic Egg, Born from the Ice, and The Giant Spaggetti Monster...
The people who want ID taught in the classroom most certainly do not want it taught as an example of what is not legitimate science. That would be "blasting ID in public school", not "teaching ID in public school". And what this means is that teachers would be prohibited from teaching kids what makes ID wrong. It is entirely conceivable that a teacher who tries to teach his kids about proper scientific method might have to censor himself because it contradicts the ID that he is forced to present as a legitimate alternate theory.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Kathy Martin, the newest board member and a former science teacher, said that opponents of the draft were overreacting and that Kansas was not going to lose any jobs or technological advancements because evolution was given a critical eye.
"I hope you guys can realize it's not going to be the end of the world," Ms. Martin said. "I hope you will try to be more open-minded."
OPEN FUCKING MINDED? Ha that's a good one. Unbelievable, a former science teacher who's quite happy to destroy her profession by filling the curiculum with anti-scientific bullshit and then has the nerve to tell people they should be more open minded.....
These people can't tell the difference between open minded and empty headed.
Anyone want to guess what the criticisms of Evolution will be? It will be "this is too complex to come about by chance!" What useless nonsense.
EBC|Fucking Metal|Artist|Androgynous Sexfiend|Gozer Kvltist|
Listen to my music! http://www.soundclick.com/nihilanth "America is, now, the most powerful and economically prosperous nation in the country." - Master of Ossus
When did Kansas ever have many jobs outside agriculture?
I hear they used to have a big rope industry.
*rimshot* Bloody Kansas indeed.
On the above, this agian comes as no shock. Like other ID states they are mearly biding their time and getting rid of the clear thinking and foright folks on the board who call bullshit. And slowly replacing them with drooling morons who will dance to the tune the Church(Whichever one you want) is playing.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
I'm all for teaching intelligent design in science class, while we're at it, lets teach humoral theory in medical school and an earth centered universe in astronomy. Come to think of it, wouldn't it just be easier in geography if the earth were flat?
The question I have is how much these people really believe what they're sayinig, and how much is pandering to the religious public, i.e. Bush's recent quote. Does he really believe this? Do most right-wingers believe this, or is this a cynical ploy to curry favor with the masses, who have lately been overdosing on their opiate?
The Board of Education stopped being as their position's title suggests the moment the majority became pro-I.D. charlatans. In Kansas and other Bible-thumping states, Board of Education should be renamed Board of Anti-Education, Board of Pro-Propoganda Indoctrination, or Board of Education Repression. They're so concerned about getting their personal views into the science classroom, yet they know nothing about the subject they wish to regulate.
If The Infinity Program were not a forum, it would be a pie-in-the-sky project. “Faith is both the prison and the open hand.”— Vienna Teng, "Augustine."
Jarl Sven wrote:I suggest that all of you who are US citizens to write to the president and explain to him the errors of his position...I know I’m going to.
Use simple words with no more than two syllables, and even then I can't guarantee the poor dope can handle it.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
Darth Wong wrote:The people who want ID taught in the classroom most certainly do not want it taught as an example of what is not legitimate science. That would be "blasting ID in public school", not "teaching ID in public school". And what this means is that teachers would be prohibited from teaching kids what makes ID wrong. It is entirely conceivable that a teacher who tries to teach his kids about proper scientific method might have to censor himself because it contradicts the ID that he is forced to present as a legitimate alternate theory.
Apparently I got too over-exited with writting my little story and introducing the "Giant Spaggetti Monster" joke that it detracted from my point. Let's try again:
Do teachers have to teach "intelligent design" or just "alternatives to evolution"? Because if it is the latter option, then there is a very easy way around it. I mean, Norse, Buddhist*, Japanese, etc. creation stories are perfectly good, and way more entertaining, alternatives.
Adrian Laguna wrote:Do teachers have to teach "intelligent design" or just "alternatives to evolution"? Because if it is the latter option, then there is a very easy way around it. I mean, Norse, Buddhist*, Japanese, etc. creation stories are perfectly good, and way more entertaining, alternatives.
But they are no more deserving of the title "scientific theory" than ID, creationism, or flying spaghetti monster theory. The real problem is forcing teachers to teach something as a scientific theory when it is nothing of the sort. One might as well ask that they teach basketball in music class.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
I suggest that all of you who are US citizens to write to the president and explain to him the errors of his position...I know I’m going to.
I've a better idea. I'll save the postage and apply it towards my next purchase of a grilled chicken sandwich. That will accomplish more, both in terms of increasing my happiness and in stimulating the economy.
You know sometimes I get tired of this cynical, negative, attitude some people have
"oh this won't work and that won;t do any good"
Here is the helpful response I got back from the White House
On behalf of President Bush, thank you for your correspondence.
We appreciate hearing your views and welcome your suggestions.
The President is committed to continuing our economic progress,
defending our freedom, and upholding our Nation's deepest values.
Due to the large volume of e-mail received, the White House cannot
respond to every message. Please visit the White House website
for the most up-to-date information on Presidential initiatives,
current events, and topics of interest to you.
Thank you again for taking the time to write.
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty
I just might have some thing to say -F. Zappa
Adrian Laguna wrote:Do teachers have to teach "intelligent design" or just "alternatives to evolution"? Because if it is the latter option, then there is a very easy way around it. I mean, Norse, Buddhist*, Japanese, etc. creation stories are perfectly good, and way more entertaining, alternatives.
But they are no more deserving of the title "scientific theory" than ID, creationism, or flying spaghetti monster theory. The real problem is forcing teachers to teach something as a scientific theory when it is nothing of the sort. One might as well ask that they teach basketball in music class.
The point is not to actually teach them, but to piss of the fundies and have them backpedaling so badly that even a stupid highschooler can see through them.
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
What was it Richard Dawkins said? "By all means, let's be open-minded, but not so much that our brains fall out." Something like that.
Another good one I've heard is "let's be open-minded... to reasonable ideas".
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest "Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
