Airport Photos

[Broomstick]

If you took flight lessons then you'd be in control of your destiny in the air, too, Chardok.

Oh, wait - there's that whole mechanics/maintenance people are idiots issue, too... Well, there's nothing for it but to have you scratch-build an airplane for yourself, too. That way you'll know it's done right. And the FAA will let you do all the maintenance on one you build yourself, too.

By the way - do you build your own cars, too? Or do you trust automakers to assemble them properly?

[Tiger Ace]

Also, when you build your own you know how to build your own replacement parts.

Making such mistakes like having the oil sump leak after more then 25 years and having no replacment parts. You can fix that.

[Chardok]

By the way - do you build your own cars, too? Or do you trust automakers to assemble them properly?

Of course I don't trust them. I do, however, trust the robots which were used in most of the production of said vehicles. Robots don't make human errors. But, that's not even the point. Let's say my car's engine fails. What happens? I roll to a complete stop, pull over, get out, and walk my ass to a gas station and call a tow truck.

If I'm at 10,000 feet Or even, hell, 2000 feet, and my engine fails, I simply roll, fall for awhile, and am separated into my component molecules by rapid deceleration.

That's my major beef. Engine failure. hell, I've had an engine mount break in a car, and I'm still able to pull over and walk. I can look for the most part and things like steering components and tell "okay, problem" or "Good to go" Plus, if there is a major system failure in a car, in my experience, I can tell before I even pull out of my driveway.

[Mrs Kendall]

He does have some good points there. I don't have a fear of commercial airplanes but I would not step foot into a smaller plane when I was one of like three passengers unless the pilot was a commercial airline pilot for ears before he stretd flying smaller planes. For some reason I don't trust smaller planes as much. Cars are a little easier to understand and trust IMO Maybe that's just because I studied cars and not airplanes though

[Broomstick]

With the airplanes I fly, if your engine quits at 10,000 feet you just glide to a landing. In fact, my normal landing involves pulling the engine all the way back to idle and letting gravity do the work. You don't need power to land (although it's nice to have).

In fact, there have been two instances I can recall of passenger jets experiencing complete engine failure at 30,000 feet and in both instances everyone walked away unhurt. Damage to one airplane was minor (it was fixed in less than a day) and none at all to the other.

Airplanes do NOT fall out of the sky when their engines quit.

As for this:

I don't have a fear of commercial airplanes but I would not step foot into a smaller plane when I was one of like three passengers unless the pilot was a commercial airline pilot for ears before he stretd flying smaller planes.

The ability to handle a big jet is no guarantee of the ability to handle a very small airplane - it's like saying that someone who drives an 18-wheeler for a living automatically knows how to ride a bicycle. What really matters is how much experience a person has in the airplane they are flying at the time. There have been some very nasty accidents involving "jet jockies" and airline pilots who assumed their ability to handle a 747 automatically made them an expert at handling a Cessna 150's.

Let me put it another way - when the mighty Chuck Yeager, after years of combat flying, jets, test piloting, and record breaking, decided to try his hand at ultralights (the simple and uncomplicated aircraft I started with) he STILL sought the services of qualified instructor and took 4 hours of dual instruction before going up by himself. When John Travolta, who has owned more aircraft than likely I'll ever fly, and who pilots his own Boeing 707, decided to buy an ultralight he, likewise, sought out a qualified instructor and, if I recall, took about 10 hours to transition. John Denver was killed, in part, because didn't have sufficent transition training for his new aircraft (even though he was highly experienced in both props and jets).

Or, to look at it still another way - the man who I studied with to finish my private license has been flying for nearly 30 years. He flies charter as well as students. But he can't legally fly the Citabria. In a week or so, when I get my endorsement I will be able to fly with him as a passenger. Why? Because according to the regs he - despite his years of experience and thousands of hours in the cockpit - is unqualified to fly a Citabria whereas I will be seen as qualified in that particular airplane.

That is part of the problem pilots have with public perception - folks not only don't understand flight, they are ignorant of what they are ignorant of. They make assumptions that don't hold up to reality, and it's really not their fault since very few people even have reason or opportunity to learn these things. Folks understand cars because they drive them, or ride in the a lot. They're familar objects, so you know what's what. Very few folks have equivalent experience in aircraft, and since 9/11 that situation has only gotten worse.

[Mrs Kendall]

I'm sorry to have sent you off on that rant there Broomstick . It's just something I'm not comfy with, I have tried to fly in a 4 passenger plane with my brother in law while he was practicing for his license and while it was kinda fun at the time I was young (about 16) and I have since decided my life is too precious to try that again because I remember I did show some fear that day. I guess I just assumed that commercial airline pilots would be more educated on how to handle a smaller plane as opposed to just someone who is learning to fly.

If I have my facts wrong then please just disregard my post then. I didn't mean to frustrate or anger you or anyone else.

I do agree that cars are easier to be comfortable in because we use them everyday and they are used by more people. I didn't mean to make it sound like if everyone flew planes instead of driving I would feel the same as I do now about planes.

[Chardok]

Plus, I've personally known lots of people who have walked away from car wrecks. I've never known ANYONE survive a plane rash. I know they exist, but I've never met them. and I know i'm statistically more likely to die in a car wreck, but for some reason my brain can't wrap around that so plane=dangerous.

[aerius]

309 people walked away from this crash, and I met a few of them when I was called in to work at the airport. The plane crashed and burned and they all still lived.

[Mrs Kendall]

Yes, but like Chardok said , he just can't seem to wrap his brain around the thought that airplane=safety, people who have this genuine fear will not be able to overcome it by statistics. It doesn't matter how other people have faired in these plane crashes it's the fear that he might lose his own life if he was in one. I tend to agree with him on that. I do get nervous when we hit turbulance when we are in a plane but I tend to deal with it better than he does (from the stories he's told me anyway). The way I deal with it is I just look at my children, show strength, and hope for the best. You can't show fear when you're with your children so maybe that is why I have become more comfortable with flying than Chardok has. Of course he probably had worse fears than I did to start off as well.

He's going to have to face his fear when he's ready to and maybe then he'll be able to overcome it. No amount of reassuring from people on a webboard is going to help him overcome this genuine fear of flying.

[Broomstick]

I guess I just assumed that commercial airline pilots would be more educated on how to handle a smaller plane as opposed to just someone who is learning to fly

Well, I don't recommend flying with someone who's a student, or who has had their license for a week, either.

But more and more, pilots interested in the airlines are taught solely about airline flying and nothing else. Their experience in small planes is minimal, and after a number of years flying the big stuff they forget the necessary skills for smaller planes. They forget how to navigate without a GPS or flight management system, they're unfamillar with radio procedures and traffic patterns in areas outside of direct air traffic control (in the US that's 95% of the airspace below 18,000 feet), and their reactions are trained for a behemoth weighing over 300,000 lbs instead of something weighing under 3,000. One of the "classic" mistakes made by a passenger jet pilot switching to small planes is to flare for landing 50 feet above the runway, stall out, and pancake into the pavement - it works just find for a 737, not so good for a C172.

Which doesn't mean all airline pilots fall into that category - we've got one at my home field who flies all different sizes of aircraft, down to ultraights. But he never stopped flying small airplanes, and thus retained hsi skills in them.

If I have my facts wrong then please just disregard my post then. I didn't mean to frustrate or anger you or anyone else.

It's not frustration directed at you, personally - it's frustration with the general situation.

It's not the car that makes for a dangerous trip, it's the driver. With airplanes, it's not the plane that makes for a dangerous flight, it's the pilot. Problem is, 99% of the time the general public never hears about the good pilots and uneventful flights, they only hear about death and destruction. Of course they have a skewed view of the whole enterprise.

[Broomstick]

Plus, I've personally known lots of people who have walked away from car wrecks. I've never known ANYONE survive a plane crash.

Hmmm... well, no, I haven't crashed.... been forced down on occassion, and one time I wound up in someone's backyard, but that wasn't a crash, it was a landing. Although a lot of people who aren't pilots have referred to that incident as a "crash". It wasn't - things got bad so I "pulled off the road", so to speak, until things improved.

I know they exist, but I've never met them. and I know i'm statistically more likely to die in a car wreck, but for some reason my brain can't wrap around that so plane=dangerous.

That's because you have a genuine phobia about flying. It's obvious to me, at least. You have a fear of flying that's irrational. Unlike some people around here I'm not going to argue that you should be "fixed". I understand being afraid to fly because I've been there myself. For me, I chose to get over it - but it wasn't easy. Thing is, you don't have to do that hard work unless you want to. I'm certainly not going to force you, though if you choose to go that route I'd be happy to help in any way I can.

[Glocksman]

It's not a Tiger Moth or Waco... It's too small to be a Waco and Wacos have rounded tails (IIRC) The upper wing is the wrong shape for a Tiger Moth. I don't think it's a Fokker - those have rounded vertical stabilizer and this one is squared off. It's not a Jenny. Not a Pitts.

You don't happen to have a shot of it with the registration number, would you? Or from another angle?

About the only other thing I can think of is the Detroit-Parks, but those are rare and I've only seen a picture of one once, so I'm not at all sure that's a match.

Do you have an actual answer, or are you looking for one?

It could be a kit plane.

It could be heavily modified.

Here's another picture

Thanks for your help.

EDIT: Never Mind.
I googled the tail number and came up with this

It's a New Standard D-25.

[Chardok]

Incedentally, after I had my Heartbreak Ridge dream last night, I immediately went into another dream as a direct result of this thread. I dreamt I was at some kind of renassaince (sp?) faire, and I saw this shadow out of the corne of my eye. I glanced over just in time to see a northwest airlines jumbo jet about 50 feet off of the deck...INVERTED. It disappeared behind some buildings, and I knew in my head it had crashed. I also knew it was not very far away at all, so my first thought was to find some cover. so I did. I went behind a dugout or something and glanced around the corner of it, just in time to see the whitish vapor forming in front of the blast wave as it came towards the crowd. It passed over us with a deafening CRAOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

And just after it passed, I realized the CRAOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW was the box fan in my room, the blast wave was the breeze from said fan, and the reason for the dream was this thread. I awoke with a start; my girlfriend was perplexed when I muttered. "Goddammit, Broom."

[Broomstick]

Well, um, Chardok, while I appreciate the attention my posts get from you (and you are the source of my current sig line) perhaps it would be best for your tender sensibilities if you stopped reading any thread of mine that has "airport" or "airplane" in the title?

If I must be the cause of a man losing a night's sleep I'd prefer it not be because I inspire fear and terror... there are so much more... um... pleasurable ways to lose sleep

(Just kidding, of course - I'm a happily married woman. Oh, alright, I confess, I do take just a smidgeon of sadistic pleasure from inspiring fear and terror...)