hyper drive and transwarp

[Drooling Iguana]

Oh and I have no indication anywhere that the Memory Alpha description of the Quantum Slipstream technology is accurate, it frankly looks like a huge chunk of technobabble with a little episodic line or two written in.

And a LOT of EU stuff says that Hyperspace is an alternate dimension. I'm actualy rather irritated that Saxton put the 'realspace in a tachyonic state' theory in becuase there is much less support in the EU for it.

But who cares...

Movies override EU, and Han's remarks in ANH support the "tachyonic realspace" theory.

[Noble Ire]

Oh and I have no indication anywhere that the Memory Alpha description of the Quantum Slipstream technology is accurate, it frankly looks like a huge chunk of technobabble with a little episodic line or two written in.

And a LOT of EU stuff says that Hyperspace is an alternate dimension. I'm actualy rather irritated that Saxton put the 'realspace in a tachyonic state' theory in becuase there is much less support in the EU for it.

But who cares...

Movies override EU, and Han's remarks in ANH support the "tachyonic realspace" theory.

I don't really see why the EU has to be overridden. True, hyperspace is sometimes refered to as a sort of trans-dimensional travel, but obviously, whatever dimension hyperspace exists in has to be affected by heavy centers of gravity in realspace (mass shadows.) Since this is the same as postulated by the tachyon theory, it is possible that the "alternate dimension" simply refers to the different state of existance objects in hyperspace conform to.

[Plushie]

Hyperspace is not a "different plane of reality" or some other BS. It's the regular universe observed from a tachyonic state.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/hyperspace.html

Er, where's his proof?

He simply states it as such without ever actually proving it.

"Travelling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy. Without precise calculations you could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that would end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"

That seems to fly in the face of the "different plane of reality" bit, doesn't it?

Er, why can't this alternate dimension interact with realspace? I mean, it already is connected in some way that every point in it is analgous to a point in realspace. Oh, and not to mention that, if hyperspace really were simply transfering something into tachyons, the ability to shatter planets would be no hat, seeing as all one would have to do would be build a massive enough projectile and accelerate it up to just over c and wa-bam.

[Patrick Degan]

Er, where's his proof?

He simply states it as such without ever actually proving it.

"Travelling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy. Without precise calculations you could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that would end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"

That seems to fly in the face of the "different plane of reality" bit, doesn't it?

Er, why can't this alternate dimension interact with realspace? I mean, it already is connected in some way that every point in it is analgous to a point in realspace. Oh, and not to mention that, if hyperspace really were simply transfering something into tachyons, the ability to shatter planets would be no hat, seeing as all one would have to do would be build a massive enough projectile and accelerate it up to just over c and wa-bam.

You simplify. In Saxton's descriptions, tachyonic matter is simply matter existing in a supra-luminal condition. It is not a different kind of matter at all and there's no conversion involved. Furthermore, in said description, hyperspace is about as "different" a dimension from normal space as a 2D flat sheet is to the surrounding 3D world is to the 4D reality both are enfolded in. They are not actually seperate at all nor can they be.

And the Death Star is a primary demonstration of the ability to shatter planets as "no hat". It is far more efficent to take the energy which you'd expend trying to accelerate a massive object to just over lightspeed (which also is not quite the mechanics behind the hyperdrive) and feed it into a directed-energy beam instead.

[Plushie]

"Travelling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy. Without precise calculations you could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that would end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"

That seems to fly in the face of the "different plane of reality" bit, doesn't it?

Er, why can't this alternate dimension interact with realspace? I mean, it already is connected in some way that every point in it is analgous to a point in realspace. Oh, and not to mention that, if hyperspace really were simply transfering something into tachyons, the ability to shatter planets would be no hat, seeing as all one would have to do would be build a massive enough projectile and accelerate it up to just over c and wa-bam.

You simplify. In Saxton's descriptions, tachyonic matter is simply matter existing in a supra-luminal condition. It is not a different kind of matter at all and there's no conversion involved. Furthermore, in said description, hyperspace is about as "different" a dimension from normal space as a 2D flat sheet is to the surrounding 3D world is to the 4D reality both are enfolded in. They are not actually seperate at all nor can they be.

Wait, now you're confusing me, that's the interpretation I always had about hyperspace, it having something to do with a fourth spatial dimension.

I only have one more question: how come space behind a ship isn't red-shifted?

[Patrick Degan]

Wait, now you're confusing me, that's the interpretation I always had about hyperspace, it having something to do with a fourth spatial dimension.

No, the fourth dimension is Time. We essentially live in a four-dimensional universe as it is; this being perfectly observable just by looking up at the night sky. View any given star and you are viewing that star in its past. You, likewise, exist in that star's future. Any process operative in our universe is defined by duration and alteration as energy is lost (or added) and matter is changed. Time, the fourth dimension, is inseperable from any description of reality and defines the changes occuring in what would otherwise be a static 3D space. The fourth dimension is not "seperate" from the other three nor can it be.

As to how hyperspace relates to this paradigm... If you want the crudest possible analogy, consider hyperspace as the "stratosphere" of normal 4D space/time where the jetstreams carry objects at velocities far greater than possible within the limitations of relativity. In this case, this "stratosphere" is "where" matter exists in a tachyonic condition.

I only have one more question: how come space behind a ship isn't red-shifted?

The doppler shift is a relativistic operation and supraluminal travel by definition would be an operation beyond the normal relativistic limitations of the 4D perspective of space/time.

[Plushie]

SNIP

Operative words here:

"a" and "spatial". I already know about dimensional mechanics.

As to how hyperspace relates to this paradigm... If you want the crudest possible analogy, consider hyperspace as the "stratosphere" of normal 4D space/time where the jetstreams carry objects at velocities far greater than possible within the limitations of relativity. In this case, this "stratosphere" is "where" matter exists in a tachyonic condition.

That makes absolutely no sense and you know it. Tachyons exist in normal 3spatial and 1temporal dimensions that STL matter does, they just exist in a superluminal state.

Not to mention that what you're describing now diverges from Saxton's description.

I only have one more question: how come space behind a ship isn't red-shifted?

The doppler shift is a relativistic operation and supraluminal travel by definition would be an operation beyond the normal relativistic limitations of the 4D perspective of space/time.

I retract my previous statement in favor of this one:

Why do we see space behind a ship at all? They'd be outrunning the light emitted and wouldn't see a god damned thing. In fact, the space in front of the ship wouldn't be a smear of indistinct blue shapes, it'd be an intensely blue-shifted reverse-photohistory of the object you're approaching. To the sides would be a fairly normal "stars flashing by as stretched lines" phenom.

However, if hyperspace is indeed some odd characterization of a fourth spatial dimension, then those indistinct blue-shifted shapes make sense as the gravitational shadows of existing objects in realspace. You wouldn't see the reverse-photohistory that we don't see because, as far as we know, photons are a phenomenon that really only make sense as we percieve them in normal 3 dimensional space. However, General Relativity gives us the reason for gravity effecting ships in hyperspace: gravity is a result of mass distortions of 3 dimensional space into a fourth spatial dimension.

[Patrick Degan]

As to how hyperspace relates to this paradigm... If you want the crudest possible analogy, consider hyperspace as the "stratosphere" of normal 4D space/time where the jetstreams carry objects at velocities far greater than possible within the limitations of relativity. In this case, this "stratosphere" is "where" matter exists in a tachyonic condition.

That makes absolutely no sense and you know it. Tachyons exist in normal 3spatial and 1temporal dimensions that STL matter does, they just exist in a superluminal state.

I said it was a very crude analogy, but this is the problem with trying to describe something you can't exactly point to and say "there it is".

Why do we see space behind a ship at all? They'd be outrunning the light emitted and wouldn't see a god damned thing. In fact, the space in front of the ship wouldn't be a smear of indistinct blue shapes, it'd be an intensely blue-shifted reverse-photohistory of the object you're approaching. To the sides would be a fairly normal "stars flashing by as stretched lines" phenom.

To quote Curt Saxton:

[quote="The Force.net"The sights of hyperspace are related to the objects of realspace along the flight path, but the vista is distorted by the fact that everything is rushing past at superluminal speed. Relativistic effects are be severe. Observers in realspace watching the ship pass would see it through severe and bizarre relativistic distortions, but for the starship occupants the entire galaxy seems to be rushing past with the same sort of distortion.[/quote]

. . .

However, if hyperspace is indeed some odd characterization of a fourth spatial dimension,

—which it is not...

then those indistinct blue-shifted shapes make sense as the gravitational shadows of existing objects in realspace. You wouldn't see the reverse-photohistory that we don't see because, as far as we know, photons are a phenomenon that really only make sense as we percieve them in normal 3 dimensional space. However, General Relativity gives us the reason for gravity effecting ships in hyperspace: gravity is a result of mass distortions of 3 dimensional space into a fourth spatial dimension.

No, no, no —gravity distorts two-dimensional space into the third dimension. Time is the consequent fourth dimension of the expansion/distortion of space and the operation of every energy process within the universe. There isn't a "fourth spatial dimension"; an absurd misinterpretation of unified space/time I had thought faded from the general consciousness by now.

[Chris OFarrell]

So Janeway dismantled the damn drive...instead of doing the most logical thing and simply using it in short bursts of a few minuites to get home in an hour or so. But no-one ever claimed she was the sharpest tool in the shed.

Parts of the drive were degrading (I think it was alien tech they stole which started to desintegrate). That's why the test was rushed. Replacing the part would've taken years.

[/url] KIM: The benamite crystals at the heart of this engine have already started to decay. It could take years to synthesise more.

Given that they clearly made the crystals in a matter of months, I somehow think Kim was exagerating. Afterall, he was the one pushing for the risky flight idea.

Still, the fact remains that they could have simply made a few jumps over almost the same period of time. A ten second reversion to realspace, then a jump back into slipstream isn't exactly a difficult thing to do.

[Darth Wong]

Given that they clearly made the crystals in a matter of months, I somehow think Kim was exagerating. Afterall, he was the one pushing for the risky flight idea.

And yet he still said that it would take years to make more, which suggests that perhaps they took some kind of shortcut when they made them the first time (maybe they found a seed to start with).

Still, the fact remains that they could have simply made a few jumps over almost the same period of time. A ten second reversion to realspace, then a jump back into slipstream isn't exactly a difficult thing to do.

Why would that work if the system is degrading? If you revert to realspace for 10 seconds, everything is still degraded. Jumping back into slipstream would not magically start you over at zero degradation.

[SirNitram]

Still, the fact remains that they could have simply made a few jumps over almost the same period of time. A ten second reversion to realspace, then a jump back into slipstream isn't exactly a difficult thing to do.

Pop quiz: Which is more degrading to your car?

Cruising at a constant speed.

Getting up to speed, stopping, starting again, over and over again very rapidly.

[Ender]

At Spanky. Its in one of the expanded universe books where they describe hyperspace as a separate realm; but since all of my books are currently taped up inside cardboard boxes; I'll conceed the point. However, it remains true that hyperspace and transwarp are nothing alike.

Medstar duology 1. Best explanation is that the poor quality o basic education results in him not knowing how it works. The same character also confuses the Stark Hyperspace war, which happened when he was a child, with the great hyperspace war 5000 years prior and claims that known technology (duplicators) does not exist.

[Ender]

Hyperspace is not a "different plane of reality" or some other BS. It's the regular universe observed from a tachyonic state.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/hyperspace.html

Er, where's his proof?

He simply states it as such without ever actually proving it.

You mean aside from the fact that popping into another universe violates conservation of energy and the fact that the movies make it extremely clear that the laws of thermodynamics still apply?

[Ender]

And a LOT of EU stuff says that Hyperspace is an alternate dimension. I'm actualy rather irritated that Saxton put the 'realspace in a tachyonic state' theory in becuase there is much less support in the EU for it.

But who cares...

Three statments actually, of which only 1 is explicet in stating another dimension and it came out well after the ICS version did (Medstar 1). One of the others (Traitor) came out just prior to it, is rather vague, and if pressed for a literal interpration can be said to apply to only Vong tech. The third (and oldest, from the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy) is vague enough that again you can argue the sourceis a bit confused about what an alternate dimension really is. Most other sources kinda did a "don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain" deal and glossed over it or threw in enough contradicting words to get a doctorate in doublespeek.

The bit on that page and in the ICS is mostly consistent with physics, the EU, and what we observe. (Mostly being my understanding is that it should still violate casualty when we know it doesn't).

[Darth Wong]

Add to that the fact that "alternate dimension" means abso-fucking-lutely nothing. What the fuck does "alternate dimension" actually mean? Do people out there honestly think that adding another dimension to the universe would create a whole separate universe, for fuck's sake? And if you could move in this dimension, why would it be dangerous to fly through a star, since you wouldn't really be flying through it?

The behaviour of hyperdrive is far more easily rationalized using Dr. Saxton's method than this infantile "alternate dimension" stupidity. No EU source has ever explained why it should be possible to "fly right through a star" if you're not even traveling through spacetime. And don't tell me that "mass shadows" are an explanation; they make no fucking sense and don't solve the problem at all. It's like saying that a line on a two-dimensional flat surface can somehow cast a "shadow" over an airplane flying 3000 feet above it, and cause a collision. Even if there were interaction (which would go both ways, incidentally) they could avoid problems by simply flying farther away from realspace in this "alternate dimension".

[Chris OFarrell]

Still, the fact remains that they could have simply made a few jumps over almost the same period of time. A ten second reversion to realspace, then a jump back into slipstream isn't exactly a difficult thing to do.

Pop quiz: Which is more degrading to your car?

Cruising at a constant speed.

Getting up to speed, stopping, starting again, over and over again very rapidly.

Bad analogy. Voyager had NO issues with either accelerating to slipstream or decelerating from slipstream. The only issue was if you stayed in the slipstream too long after entering it, the field apparently started to screw up and you got VIOLENTLY dumped back into realspace.

Unless you have something from the episode to say that accelerating to slipstream then decelerating from it (and hardly very rapidly, you don't need to spend two seconds in realspace then try to jump back in) causes some kind of problem, I see no issue with the idea of short 'jumps'.

[Chris OFarrell]

Given that they clearly made the crystals in a matter of months, I somehow think Kim was exagerating. Afterall,
he was the one pushing for the risky flight idea.

And yet he still said that it would take years to make more, which suggests that perhaps they took some kind of shortcut when they made them the first time (maybe they found a seed to start with).

Perhaps but I think they used some kind of ore to manufacture the crystals and his concern was about finding more. If they were able to find enough so quickly to manufacture a brand new drive system (as the system had not even been mentioned in the previous episode or ANY previous episode) I am rather skeptical of the claims.

On the other hand, we also don't know how bad this degridation is. Afterall they had powered the drive up the day before, then gotten drunk partying then the NEXT day they were going to go home...so I don't think we're talking a timeframe of hours or even days before the drive became unviable.

Still, the fact remains that they could have simply made a few jumps over almost the same period of time. A ten second reversion to realspace, then a jump back into slipstream isn't exactly a difficult thing to do.

Why would that work if the system is degrading? If you revert to realspace for 10 seconds, everything is still degraded. Jumping back into slipstream would not magically start you over at zero degradation.

They were not talking about any kind of structual degridation or drive degridation. It was the 'slipstream field' (comprable IIRC to a warp field) that slowly degraded the longer they stayed at slipstream velocities. If they droped to realspace, the field would have shut down and the problem no longer exist.

MY contention is that when they then re-entered slipstream, the field would be back to square one and again they would have the 20-30 seconds to move 10,000 light years before the slipstream field would degrade to unsafe levels, then once again drop to realspace. Each time they re-entered slipstream and accelerated, logicaly the drive field starting from the begining would have been restored to its original state and while it would slowly build up that phase variance or whatever, you just have to drop out before it reaches critical levels.

[Perseid]

I always thought of traveling in hyperspace vs travelling at warp as like trying to cross a large body of water, I know it sounds fucked up but stay with me.

With a large body of water, like say the Atlantic Ocean, the surface is constantly choppy which can slow a ship down, which is the reason why all surface ships have a large powerful set of engines to propel them at a sufficient speed to make travelling in this way viable.
By contrast under the surface there are very few such difficulties, with the exception of underwater rivers, currents, and eddys, some of which affect the surface ships as much as a sub. However the sub can travel at a speed the equals the surface ships without breaking a sweat, and with a much smaller engine system, I know it's more efficient because the vast majority of modern subs are nukes however a sub reduces in speed slightly when it surfaces compared with when it's underwater.

So my theory is as follows, please feel free to poke holes in it if I seem to be wrong on any points.
Warp works along the lines of generating a field around the ship allowing that ship to move through space-time on what would be the surface, the idea is that they lengthen the distance behind them whilst shrinking the distance in front of them. However the Warp Drive is roughly equivalent to using an old tall ship to travel across the Atlantic, it's slow, can be interupted (tall ship wind dies down, Warp ship sub space problem), but you can adjust the course with relative ease.
Hyperspace works along the lines of firing a torpedo from a submarine, it's fast, you don't have many obstructions, but if theres something big in your path then you end up becoming a new decoration on that object. With the example of the torpedo, the torp would travel at it's much faster velocity to the target, however if say for arguements sake (sp?) it overshoots the target and hits an iceberg, the iceberg is seemingly unaffected whilst the torpedo has been destroyed.

The reason why I think this theory is pretty close as to provideing a comparison between the two is that both sets of drives are affected by things in space-time, in the same way that a ship and a submersible are, it's just a slow moving ship has more of a chance of avoiding the object, while a fast moving ship needs to be able to detect the obstruction up ahead and come to a stop before hitting something that will destroy it; ie. the gravity sensors that work in hyperspace would be more of a warning that they're approaching something large enough to squash them like a bug and then of course the safety cut outs kick in.

Of coarse Transwarp would be equivalent to someone traveling just below the surface, but unable to get the full advantage of the deeper areas.

[drachefly]

The hole in your analogy is that submarines move slower than surface vessels. I'd call that a big hole.

As the theory itself is concerned, sure, why not... you just can't use that crappy analogy.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I always thought of traveling in hyperspace vs travelling at warp as like trying to cross a large body of water, I know it sounds fucked up but stay with me.

*snip nonsense*

No theorising is needed when it's already been established how Hyperspace travel works:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/hyperspace.html

[Darth Wong]

Perhaps but I think they used some kind of ore to manufacture the crystals and his concern was about finding more. If they were able to find enough so quickly to manufacture a brand new drive system (as the system had not even been mentioned in the previous episode or ANY previous episode) I am rather skeptical of the claims.

You need a lot stronger evidence than that to say that a character is flat-out wrong about something.

On the other hand, we also don't know how bad this degridation is. Afterall they had powered the drive up the day before, then gotten drunk partying then the NEXT day they were going to go home...so I don't think we're talking a timeframe of hours or even days before the drive became unviable.

See above.

They were not talking about any kind of structual degridation or drive degridation. It was the 'slipstream field' (comprable IIRC to a warp field) that slowly degraded the longer they stayed at slipstream velocities. If they droped to realspace, the field would have shut down and the problem no longer exist.

That's not what they seemed to think.

MY contention is that when they then re-entered slipstream, the field would be back to square one and again they would have the 20-30 seconds to move 10,000 light years before the slipstream field would degrade to unsafe levels, then once again drop to realspace. Each time they re-entered slipstream and accelerated, logicaly the drive field starting from the begining would have been restored to its original state and while it would slowly build up that phase variance or whatever, you just have to drop out before it reaches critical levels.

It's possible for a character to be flat-out wrong, but if you honestly think that your personal speculation and theories about the behaviour of a fictional drive system (with no real body of evidence concerning normal operation, and not even a history of prior use) can be considered sufficient evidence to make that statement, you're either an idiot or a liar.

[Drooling Iguana]

Given that they clearly made the crystals in a matter of months, I somehow think Kim was exagerating. Afterall, he was the one pushing for the risky flight idea.

And yet he still said that it would take years to make more, which suggests that perhaps they took some kind of shortcut when they made them the first time (maybe they found a seed to start with).

I always assumed that they were able to salvage some components from that original QS ship that they found (the one that was disguised as a Starfleet ship because the pilot wanted to get revenge on Janeway for giving the Borg an advantage against Species 8472) but would have to start from scratch again after those parts degraded.

[Solauren]

I've always assumed with the Crystal's where something they found that they could duplicate, but was so time consuming, they never bothered before as they hoped to be home before they could grow them

[vivftp]

Hmm, I think I can add a couple of things here since we're talking about Borg transawrp. I've made 2 calcs on this matter on SB.com, so I'll post them here:

In Voyagers Dark Frontier, the Delta Flyer using a stolen Borg transwarp coil travelled from Voyagers location to the primary unicomplex in an unknown amount of time (they were following the trail of a Borg sphere). When the Flyer was returning to Voyagers location, here's the series of events...

- DF enters transwarp conduit
- Borg diamond enters transwarp conduit right behind it
- cut to inside of DF, Paris notes that a ship entered the conduit right after them (so this negates the possibility of a time lapse)
- Paris notes 2.4 minutes to Voyagers location at 35 seconds into the trip... so approx 3 minutes for the DF to travel the distance from the Primary Unicomplex to Voyagers location... now we figure out how far that is...

- In Scorpion, we know Voyager had just entered the outer rim of Borg space, and had apparently managed to travel at least 40 lightyears into it.
- In the following episode, The Gift, we know they'd been continuing to travel through Borg space, but without encountering much. Then near the end of the episode, Kes throws Voyager 9,500 lightyears closer to home - Janeway notes this is beyond Borg space, and since subsequent episodes show us other alien species with little or no Borg activity, it does appear that they've left Borg space.
- There is there an entire season where Voyager continues its travels (unknown distance travelled), but we know in Hope and Fear that they got another 300 lightyears closer to home (as per Janeways log entry), the void in the episode Night (beginning of next season) spanned a distance of well over 2,500 lightyears (7 of 9 reported that she had scanned space for 2,500 lightyears and not detected any stars) - and at the end, Voyager uses an anomoly to exit the other side.... so taking that into consideration, plus the 2 dozen or so other episodes, we're looking at well over 3,000 lightyears travelled. So 9,500 + 3,000 and we're upto 12,500 lightyears travelled
- Then, in the Voyager episode Timeless, they try to use quantum slipstream technology again, they don't get home, but Janeway notes that they got another 10 years closer to home. Now we can guesstimate just how far they managed to get since in Caretaker, we know they're 70,000 lightyears away from home, and it'd take 75 years to get there at their maximum warp... or an average speed of 933.33 lightyears per year. Now take 10 years at that same average, and we get 9,333.33 lightyears. Add this to our previous figure of 12,500 lightyears and we get 21,833.33 lightyears (at bare minimum, since we don't know fully well how far they travelled in other episodes) travelled from Scorpion, which was on the outer edge of Borg space, to their current location in Dark Frontier.

OKEE, so 21,833 lightyears is our figure, and let's go by what we know to be the outer edge of Borg space (as per The Gift, which would be 9,500 lightyears from their location in Scorpion)... so somewhere between 12,333.33 lightyears and 21,833.33 lightyears (at least), is where the Borg's primary unicomplex is. So going by the 3 minute figure the Delta Flyer went, that means that at most, it would've taken them 24.32 minutes to travel the ENTIRE Star Trek galaxy (100,000 lightyears), at at minimum, 13.74 minutes to travel the ENTIRE Star Trek galaxy...

And just in case it's brought up, some have speculated that the Borgs primary unicomplex could've been closer to Voyagers new location (like somewhere in the distance they covered while in the slipstream). Well there're some major problems with this theory though. First, we know the boundaries of Borg space (from The Gift), and all Borg activity afterwards seems to lie OUTSIDE of their space (ships, hubs...) It stands to reason that the Primary Unicomplex is somewhere in the heart of Borg space which was covered in The Gift. If you think that it was in the area covered in Timeless, then that would mean there's ANOTHER major area of Borg space outside of the massive area covered in The Gift. This doesn't seem to be the case because after The Gift, we saw many other alien spcies, and less Borg... leading to Timeless, then after that we saw other alien species and their space again... no indication that somewhere in that area lies another major chunk of Borg space.

Ok, so that's the first calc I had made a while back. The only assumption is where the Borg Primary Unicomplex is, and I went with the assumption that it's smack dab in Borg space from The Gift.

Now not too long ago after re-watching Dark Frontier I realized that another set of calcs could be made from the available information, I'll post that now:

Now, in the episode when the Voyager crew are planning to steal a transwarp coil, Torres states:

TORRES: If I could equip our engines with even one coil we could shave about twenty years off this trip.


Then after the Delta Flyer returns at the end of the episode, Voyager uses the coil, and we get this dialogue from Janeway:

Captain's Log, Stardate 52619.2. We got another twenty thousand light years out of the transwarp coil before it gave out. I figure we're a good fifteen years closer to home.


Now work that out, and Voyager missed out on about 6,666.66 lightyears of what they could get from the coil when comparing Torres statement and the actual result after the Flyer used the coil.

Now the Flyer did a round trip from Voyagers location to the Unicomplex back to Voyager - and being a bit more generous and accounding for deviations in course and whatnot, let's make it an even 3,000 lightyears. So this would mean that the Flyer travelled about 3,000 lightyears in exactly 3 minutes.

Now Torres would definately know what she's talking about here since she's had experience with transwarp in Day of Honour, and she had an actual transwarp coil earlier in this very episode, albeit it was damaged beyond repair.

So for this second calc, it means it would take 100 minutes for to cross the Milky Way at this speed, or 1 hour, 40 minutes. Overall, between the 2 calcs I think it provides a very nice low and high end for Borg transwarp coils.

[Darth Quorthon]

Sorry, but I could not help myself. Linked because it's too damn big.
"She's supposed to have transwarp drive."
"Aye, and if my Grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon."