What's the Big Deal With Mace?

PrinceofLowLight · Post by **PrinceofLowLight** » 2005-08-14 12:13am

Not sure if this should be in Off-topic. It's a science question, so I figured it went here.

What's the deal with mace? Wouldn't it just as effective and cheaper to put some rubbing alcohol or windex in a little aerosol can?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2005-08-14 01:24am

Pepper spray contains capsaicin, which plugs into pain receptors in mucus membranes without causing actual tissue damage. It's far more painful than alcohol or Windex would be, while actually being much less likely to cause permanant damage or blindness. Shoot someone in the eyes with rubbing alcohol, and you can expect to go to jail for battery.

EDIT: The hotness of a pepper is measured in Scoville Heat Units (SHUs). A sweet bell pepper is 0 SHUs. The hottest jalapenos rate 8000 SHUs. Common pepper spray is rated at two million SHUs, and police pepper spray hits about five and a half million SHUs.

wilfulton · Post by **wilfulton** » 2005-08-14 01:32am

Oddly enough, if you shoot the same person in the eye with lead, it'll be minus one perp, provided you can prove that you were imminent danger of life and/or limb. On the plus side, lead also stops them instantly, on the minus side, you can't always carry your pistol with you.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2005-08-14 10:19am

RedImperator wrote:Pepper spray contains capsaicin, which plugs into pain receptors in mucus membranes without causing actual tissue damage. It's far more painful than alcohol or Windex would be, while actually being much less likely to cause permanant damage or blindness. Shoot someone in the eyes with rubbing alcohol, and you can expect to go to jail for battery.

EDIT: The hotness of a pepper is measured in Scoville Heat Units (SHUs). A sweet bell pepper is 0 SHUs. The hottest jalapenos rate 8000 SHUs. Common pepper spray is rated at two million SHUs, and police pepper spray hits about five and a half million SHUs.

And the hottest peppers one would try to eat weigh in at between 210,000 to 350,000 with the hottest pepper ever recorded weiging in at 577,000 SHU.

The uniitiated person eating anything containing a pepper that hot will tell you that it can be excruciatingly painful on one's lips, mouth, tongue with a long-lasting burning sensation in the stomach. And that's with nowhere near a million SHUs. Some people can't even stand jalapenos which are quite mild in comparison. Hell, some people can't even take the chopped green chiles that are available as a burger topping in some parts of the country (1000 - 5000 SHU.)

And the nasty thing about capsaicin is that it won't come off with water alone. But, as mentioned, it is otherwise harmless . . . once the pain goes away. And while some of us might like the endorphin rush that comes from eating what is effectively liquid pain, nobody has the pain tolerance necessary to stand pepper spray or mace.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-08-14 10:46am

Is it possible to kill someone with it? Like if you submerged their body in a giant vat of it?

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-08-14 10:56am

Rye wrote:Is it possible to kill someone with it? Like if you submerged their body in a giant vat of it?

That's so twisted, it's borderline sig territory, Rye.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-08-14 11:09am

Rye wrote:Is it possible to kill someone with it? Like if you submerged their body in a giant vat of it?

Possibly, but pain is really only there to bring attention to damage on the body, if it gets too intense the person blacks out anyway. Though the shock could, in some cases, cause death since you can literally scare people to death.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2005-08-14 11:36am

Rye wrote:Is it possible to kill someone with it? Like if you submerged their body in a giant vat of it?

Capsaicin is poisonous in high enough doses, so yes, that would probably be fatal. You rarely hear of someone dying of capsaicin poisoning because the concentration in even the hottest chillis is too low. It may be possible to overdose on some of these so-called hardcore hot sauces which are really just pure or nearly pure capsaicin, but most people who buy bottles of that stuff buy them as collector's items, not food. Pepper spray probably isn't lethal unless you empty the whole can into someone's stomach, and even that depends on him keeping it down for any length of time (doubtful).

There's also a chance someone could suffer an allergic reaction to a much lower dose of capsaicin, but that's a fairly rare allergy.

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » 2005-08-14 12:05pm

Note however that the skin is not as sensitive to spice as the tongue. This is how you can make the mistake of eating a macroscopic amount of wasabi with your fingers, thinking it to be somewhat dried guacamole. If you had picked it up with your mouth, I'm sure you wouldn't get that far.

Eyes are somewhere in between, I'd hazard*. If any of it gets in their nose or mouth, that'll be extra nasty.

*Insert standard 'guess disclaimer' here

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-08-14 12:20pm

wilfulton wrote:Oddly enough, if you shoot the same person in the eye with lead, it'll be minus one perp, provided you can prove that you were imminent danger of life and/or limb. On the plus side, lead also stops them instantly, on the minus side, you can't always carry your pistol with you.

also lead poisoning is illegal in some parts of the world (like here).

wilfulton · Post by **wilfulton** » 2005-08-14 12:29pm

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote: And while some of us might like the endorphin rush that comes from eating what is effectively liquid pain, nobody has the pain tolerance necessary to stand pepper spray or mace.

Actually, police trainees are sprayed with it and expected to still deliver a series of debiliting blows with their knightsticks on a gauntlet. Mace can come right back in your own face, if the wind conditions are right, so they train for if this happens.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2005-08-14 08:54pm

wilfulton wrote:
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote: And while some of us might like the endorphin rush that comes from eating what is effectively liquid pain, nobody has the pain tolerance necessary to stand pepper spray or mace.
Actually, police trainees are sprayed with it and expected to still deliver a series of debiliting blows with their knightsticks on a gauntlet. Mace can come right back in your own face, if the wind conditions are right, so they train for if this happens.

As well as any and all MP's and ASF(Auxiliry Security Force) are expected to run a full out challenge course, with wire crawls, rope climbs and double ladder climbs plus the nightstick(Not Knightstick unless British) hits.