Why has Christian Fundamentalism been making a comback?

[Adrian Laguna]

Okay, this has been going on for 10-20 years. Suddenly the scientific community is under attack by a voiciferous minority that manages to beat the Catholic Church in closemindedness (which is where I draw the line between ultra-concervative and batshit crazy fundie). Worse, this minority is both growing and gaining influence, they've got the fucking ear of the President of the United States! The question is why? Why are people challenging the scientific community, attacking the teaching of basic biology in science classes, and treating a 5,000 year old document as the literal word of God, completely ignoring the fact that the hands that wrote those pages are biased and error-prone human hands!? I can understand why a dirt-poor (exept for the lucky few who controll all the wealth) shit-hole like the Middle East would become a haven for crazy fundamentalists (Muslim in their case). But why the fucking USofA? One of the richest and most properous nations on Earth? How can a nation that takes inmense pride in calling itself a world leader (or even the World Leader) suddely experience an upsurge in backwards thinking? Why? Why? Why?

Okay, I got a somewhat melo-dramatic there. I'm not trying to imply a doom-and-gloom scenario where the US slides backwards into the Dark Ages. However, it is mistifiying and confusing that a form of thinking that was outdated and dissapearing 80 years ago, would suddenly make such a comeback. I would like an explanation, since none come to mind.

[fgalkin]

Okay, this has been going on for 10-20 years. Suddenly the scientific community is under attack by a voiciferous minority that manages to beat the Catholic Church in closemindedness (which is where I draw the line between ultra-concervative and batshit crazy fundie). Worse, this minority is both growing and gaining influence, they've got the fucking ear of the President of the United States! The question is why? Why are people challenging the scientific community, attacking the teaching of basic biology in science classes, and treating a 5,000 year old document as the literal word of God, completely ignoring the fact that the hands that wrote those pages are biased and error-prone human hands!? I can understand why a dirt-poor (exept for the lucky few who controll all the wealth) shit-hole like the Middle East would become a haven for crazy fundamentalists (Muslim in their case). But why the fucking USofA? One of the richest and most properous nations on Earth? How can a nation that takes inmense pride in calling itself a world leader (or even the World Leader) suddely experience an upsurge in backwards thinking? Why? Why? Why?

Read me and find out

Okay, I got a somewhat melo-dramatic there. I'm not trying to imply a doom-and-gloom scenario where the US slides backwards into the Dark Ages. However, it is mistifiying and confusing that a form of thinking that was outdated and dissapearing 80 years ago, would suddenly make such a comeback. I would like an explanation, since none come to mind.

Well, technically, it can't be a Dark Age, since all the previoius Dark Ages were caused by mass migrations. So, unless you count the Mexicans...

As for why, the short answer is that Christian Fundamentalism is a reaction to modernity, and particularly some developments in modern culture, as well as teh secularization of society,

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Qwerty 42]

I think it's partly to do with the polarization of society on the matter. Church attendance rates were much lower and openly agnostic presidents could still get into office prior to the Civil War. Once civil rights and Mr. Darwin came about, fundamentalism was born, and the idea was clung to during the cold war when we wanted something to contrast us against the Soviet Union. Whenever fundamentalists have perceived an attack on their faith, they have "taken up arms" and brought us into a state the U.S. is in today.

All of that is according to my history book, of course.

[Elheru Aran]

I blame it upon the rise of televangelism in the '70s, though its subsquent fall (notably after the Jim Bakker/Jimmy Swaggart scandals) damaged the conservative Christian movement considerably. Also, an emphasis upon evangelization erupted at the same time, with 'Holy Rollers' and the like. It is notable, I believe, that most of the prominent Christians-- Falwell, Dobson, et al-- and ministers date from the baby boom; they would've been 'born again' either when kids at church or as teenagers during this time.

Much of their influence comes from television shows still, and there's still *huge* evangelization attempts going on, notably by the Southern Baptist Commission, which will often get together with 'Cross Over (so-and-so city)' projects, in which the Baptist churches within a town will try to spread the word to all its residents.

They also pander to patriotism-- 'America began as a land for religious freedom (cue picture of Pilgrims in the snow), help us keep it that way by repressing personal expression and the First Amendment, oh yeah, and how bout we stomp them ragheads so we can spread the WUUUUHHHDDDD to the heathens!' [/sarcasm]

They also manage to manipulate social mores by raising an enormous outcry when something 'immoral' happens more or less publicly; Nipplegate is one such example. The Hot Coffee shitstorm is the latest, without a doubt not going to be the last.

In short? There are a fair few factors, and you can't pin it down to just one thing. I'll say this outright, I know a lot of good fundies-- hell, my dad's one (i've pretty much given up on my mom), but for the most part, you can't really do anything with them....

[SPOOFE]

It's all about MONEY. You get people riled up about something - anything - and they'll throw you wads of cash. Fundies simply got their crap into mainstream venues, where it will garner attention (and millions of dollars) for a few years, until it's replaced by The Next Thing.

[Elheru Aran]

It's all about MONEY. You get people riled up about something - anything - and they'll throw you wads of cash. Fundies simply got their crap into mainstream venues, where it will garner attention (and millions of dollars) for a few years, until it's replaced by The Next Thing.

That reminds me of the whole shtick Jimmy Swaggart had going... he'd send you 'prayer blankets' that were 'personally blessed by Mr. Swaggart himself' for a small donation to his cause, which would of course support the desitute and build houses, yadda-yadda-yadda...

Ironically enough, concerning most televangelists, their fall from grace was because it got revealed that they were involved with pornography and sex... Swaggart had a lifelong 'addiction' to porn, and had hookers in several states; furthermore, he was also at least interested in pedophilia. Bakker had an lengthy affair with a church secretary and paid her off to keep her quiet.

Ain't it amazing what religious shits do....

[Elheru Aran]

Ghetto edit: It was Robert Tilton with the prayer sheets. My bad.

[Xon]

I blame the 60s.

Or rather the resulting backlash over the sexually free attitudes espoused by that era. Control and repression of sexual matters is a major part of the Christian religion ethos, and as such any major challenge to a core part of a faith will result in a backlash.

[Darth Wong]

I actually blame the continual refinement of propaganda techniques over the last few decades. Believe it or not, the modern expertise at advertising has not always been here. Look at how blatant and almost childishly simplistic advertising and government propaganda used to be, in old 50s movies (or the old Nazi propaganda films). Decades of television advertising experience have produced extremely refined visual propaganda methods, and as those methods are known to be most effective on those who possess the least critical thinking abilities, they are perfect for fundie recruitment.

[outcast]

darth wong, i hate to break this to you, but most advertistic is still pretty damn blatant and childish . as is a lot of patriotic propaganda. or maybe you're right and those of us with better developed frontal cortexes just see through all the bullshit

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Darth Wong, I hate to break this to you, but most advertising is still pretty damn blatant and childish, as is a lot of patriotic propaganda.

But maybe you're right and those of us with better-developed frontal cortices just see through all the bullshit.

Translated from AOL to English for readability.

Ow, my brain hurts now.



Yes, most advertising is very childish, but I've seen some very rare rather slick commercials. Sometimes 'childish and hokey' is exactly what the advertiser is trying to go for, although that's like trying to fall off a floating log...

[That NOS Guy]

I would also, as ggs stated, blame the 60s.

I however, place the backlash on the guilt that many people feel (rightly or wrongly) for what they did, in an attempt to make themselves "clean" in their minds they turned to what Americans tradtionally look to as an upstanding model: The ultra-devout Christian.

That, and increasingly sly ad campaigns closely mirroring corporate advertising campaigns which help bring alot of this guilt to the surface.

[Darth Wong]

darth wong, i hate to break this to you, but most advertistic is still pretty damn blatant and childish

Learn to use capitalization. And you need to watch 1950s ads if you think current ads aren't any more slick than the old ones were.

[Darth Wong]

I would also, as ggs stated, blame the 60s.

I however, place the backlash on the guilt that many people feel (rightly or wrongly) for what they did, in an attempt to make themselves "clean" in their minds they turned to what Americans tradtionally look to as an upstanding model: The ultra-devout Christian.

That doesn't explain why certain nations do the same things (hell, there are nations out there which wholeheartedly embraced sex and drugs in the 1960s and didn't really look back) without any of this backlash.

Besides, I think the sexual and pharmaceutical adventurism of the 1960s has been exaggerated somewhat. Look at the most highly publicized pop culture movements of the 1990s, which was the "Seattle grunge movement". How many people do you know who actually got wholeheartedly into that? Despite media appearances, it's only a small percentage of the overall population; most ordinary people just go about their business and try to get by, rather than jumping on pop culture bandwagons.

We have done so much research on psychological manipulation techniques in this century, and learned so much, and unfortunately, fundies are taking full advantage of these techniques.

[General Zod]

Ghetto edit: It was Robert Tilton with the prayer sheets. My bad.

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Am I the only one that got a dirty image in their mind when they read the part about putting the cord in the hole next to the area of your biggest need?

[That NOS Guy]

That doesn't explain why certain nations do the same things (hell, there are nations out there which wholeheartedly embraced sex and drugs in the 1960s and didn't really look back) without any of this backlash.

This is a very good point, and to say "well Europe doesn't have such a strong Christian tradition" would be downright stupid. I believe the difference between American and European Christain tradition breaks down into the style of American worship which is more fire & brimstone then most. This style of course often uses guilt and fear to keep a message hammered in.

As you stated earlier, the advertising techniques have improved rather much over the years, these only serve to further convey a message of "you must make yourself clean!" that a lot of people felt as they grew older. Of course, this is not everyone in the baby-boom generation but more then quite a few.

I fully agree that the advertising techniques that have advanced over the past fifty years have been used to a tremondous effect. I also feel that TV merely hastened something along that was going to happen regardless.

Every successful revolt always has a backlash.

[Glocksman]

This is a very good point, and to say "well Europe doesn't have such a strong Christian tradition" would be downright stupid. I believe the difference between American and European Christain tradition breaks down into the style of American worship which is more fire & brimstone then most. This style of course often uses guilt and fear to keep a message hammered in.

Can you get more 'fire and brimstone' than the Inquisition?
Seriously though, I think that there's no one answer to the question and that it's a combination of many factors.

Some of those are:

1. The lack of state sponsored/controlled religion.

This set up a favorable environment for the rise of 'non-traditional' (by European standards) religious groups who by and large didn't have to worry about persecution by or competition from the government's 'official' religion.

2. The types of early settlers:

Many of the earliest settlers were religious extremists and refugees from religious persecution.

3. Revivalism:

This isn't a new thing. Every few decades in American history, a revivalist movement has sprung up. What is relatively new is the broadcast mass media that lets the revivalists reach a much larger audience than they could preaching in a tent at the county fairgrounds.

4. Distrust of the government:

There are many here who'll say that distrusting your government is 'black helicopter' type thinking. Regardless, that distrust has existed and still exists to a degree today. Those who distrust the .gov and dislike what they see as 'immorality' and are inclined to be religious will turn to those who oppose such things, especially if they believe the immorality is actively being promoted by the government.

There's more, but the question can't be answered by pointing to one factor and saying 'that's why'.

[outcast]

Darth Wong, I hate to break this to you, but most advertising is still pretty damn blatant and childish, as is a lot of patriotic propaganda.

But maybe you're right and those of us with better-developed frontal cortices just see through all the bullshit.

uhm, i fail to see how what i said constituted 'bad' english. except the typo of cortex

[outcast]

darth wong, i hate to break this to you, but most advertistic is still pretty damn blatant and childish

Learn to use capitalization. And you need to watch 1950s ads if you think current ads aren't any more slick than the old ones were.

learn to not be a frigging grammar-nazi. and while 1950's ads are even more blatantly ridiculous than today's, that does not change the fact modern ads are still ridiculous.

[General Zod]

Darth Wong, I hate to break this to you, but most advertising is still pretty damn blatant and childish, as is a lot of patriotic propaganda.

But maybe you're right and those of us with better-developed frontal cortices just see through all the bullshit.

uhm, i fail to see how what i said constituted 'bad' english. except the typo of cortex

He's referring to your absolute lack of capitalization. A mod'll jump on you sooner or later for refusing to capitalize, regardless of how long you've been here. Just as a bit of advice.

[Glocksman]

darth wong, i hate to break this to you, but most advertistic is still pretty damn blatant and childish

Learn to use capitalization. And you need to watch 1950s ads if you think current ads aren't any more slick than the old ones were.

learn to not be a frigging grammar-nazi. and while 1950's ads are even more blatantly ridiculous than today's, that does not change the fact modern ads are still ridiculous.

That's because modern advertising has been able to 'target' a particular audience like never before.
To me, ads aimed at the 'urban' (read: black gangsta and white wannabe) culture, like a lot of McD's and Coke ads, are either ineffective, offensive, or both. To one of the wannabes, however, the ad reaches him or her.

If the advertiser is targeting your demographic and is any good at all, the ad will reach you on some level. It may not make you run out right now and buy a Pepsi, but when you're at a vending machine trying to decide what to get, Pepsi may pop up in your mind without you even being consciously aware of where the thought came from.

[Civil War Man]

2. The types of early settlers:

Many of the earliest settlers were religious extremists and refugees from religious persecution.

This, IMHO, is one of the biggest reasons for fundies in America. However, I'd blame it more on the religious extremists than the refugees. You'd have more to worry about with the fire-and-brimstone Calvinists than you would with, say, the Quakers.

[Elheru Aran]

2. The types of early settlers:

Many of the earliest settlers were religious extremists and refugees from religious persecution.

This, IMHO, is one of the biggest reasons for fundies in America. However, I'd blame it more on the religious extremists than the refugees. You'd have more to worry about with the fire-and-brimstone Calvinists than you would with, say, the Quakers.

Quite true. Take the Pilgrims as an example; the fundies like to harp upon them coming to the States for the cause of religious freedom, but frankly, they were here to get out of trouble in England. They weren't all Bible bashers, either-- they were quite lenient theologically, and had many non-religious settlers accompanying them, notably Miles Standish, who often conflicted with the religious leaders of the Plymouth community.

On the other hand, their successors, the Puritans, were rigid and intolerant enough that they lent their name rather handily to a common perjorative adjective used to refer to fundamentalists....

[Pablo Sanchez]

Quite true. Take the Pilgrims as an example; the fundies like to harp upon them coming to the States for the cause of religious freedom, but frankly, they were here to get out of trouble in England.

Not true. They got out of trouble in England by emigrating to the Netherlands, where the merchant/burgher government of the Stadtholders allowed religious freedom; Calvinists, Lutherans, Catholics, even Jews. The Pilgrims left the Netherlands, IIRC, because they couldn't stand the level of tolerance practiced by the Dutch.

3. Revivalism:

This isn't a new thing. Every few decades in American history, a revivalist movement has sprung up. What is relatively new is the broadcast mass media that lets the revivalists reach a much larger audience than they could preaching in a tent at the county fairgrounds.

I actually think that this, combined with the general conservative-vs-liberal ebb and flow of power in American politics, accounts for the entirety of the apparent surge in fundamentalism. Revivalism is cyclical in America, and its current appearance happened to coincide both with the explosion of new mass media and with the resurgence of conservative power.

[Edi]

darth wong, i hate to break this to you, but most advertistic is still pretty damn blatant and childish

Learn to use capitalization. And you need to watch 1950s ads if you think current ads aren't any more slick than the old ones were.

learn to not be a frigging grammar-nazi.

Look you, trying to tell the owner of the board what the rules in his own house should be is a Bad Idea, with trademarks and all. Most who have tried it and especially ones who have used the tone you're using have suffered a sudden and devastating encounter with the Ban Hammer.

Also:

Posting Rule #1:
This forum is an English-language forum. This means that you will use recognizable English. It also means that you will not use hacker dialect (aka "l33t-speak") or annoying IM habits such as "ur" in place of "you are". You will also use capitalization properly, not to mention punctuation, sentence breaks, paragraphs, etc. If you don't like to type decent English, either learn or leave. Greater allowances for deviation from proper English may be made for those for whom English is a second language, within reason. You must at least give the impression that you are sincerely trying to construct proper English sentences.

Using the shift key every once in a while is not such an onerous task, but if you prefer to stand your ground over such a ridiculous point of pride as insisting to type like an AOL moron, I'll just get the hell out of Dodge before the heavy artillery opens up.

We're not trying to pick on you, we're trying to help you avoid getting in trouble.

Edi