Bizarre system freeze problem

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-08-17 08:58am

Ever since I replaced my old Sapphire Radeon 9600XT with Club3D 6600GT I've been having random system freezes. It starts by first the mouse pointer remaining movable but for example no button or link on the screen can be used. After a short while of that, the mouse pointer freezes, and after that the sounds do the same. Now, after 15 seconds or so the screen blacks out for a short moment afterwhich everything is back to normal. It does this when surfing on the net, and when trying to play Zero Hour and Dungeon Siege II. When playing Battlefield II, Act of War or Dawn of War for example, there are no problems. Now the symptoms of the freeze are exactly the same when it occurs in Zero Hour and Dungeon Siege II, but no sign of them in the other games I mentioned.

Im slightly at a loss at what could be the problem. I rather recently re-installed XP, ran three different Spyware and Anti-virus scans to seal out the possibility of some bug causing this. I also updated to the latest Forceware drivers, and yet the problem persists. Some have suggested that the problem could lie with my PSU, as the minimum requirement for the 6600GT is 350 Watts. While I have a 350 watt PSU, I also have a DVD burner, 2 IDE Hard Drives, A 2.4Ghz P4 and an assortment of other junk.

Anyone have any clue what could be the problem here? Any help is appreciated, because Im out of ideas at the moment.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-08-17 09:00am

When you switched graphic cards, did you completly uninstall the previous drivers?

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-08-17 09:13am

Yup, using the ATI driver un-installation thingie that is available on their site.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-08-17 09:14am

Touch the card during play, see if its too hot. But that dosn't explain the Windows issue....

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-08-17 09:25am

Well, it has its own onboard sensors for thermal cauging, and I can see the temperatures from the 6600GT control panel, after one of each of these incidents the card temperature is never higher than 45 degrees celsius and the surrounding air temperature around 35.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-08-17 09:37am

I'm really not sure, try Memtest(google) and check your RAM?

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-08-17 04:00pm

RAM checks out ok. And another update, had the freeze occur twice when playing skirmish on Act of War today so by no means is AAOW exempt from the problem.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2005-08-17 04:06pm

Hm, might be a problem with your PSU...
Do you have enough free HD space on your windows partition for your page file? I once had the problem that Windows tried to get more swap space than was left on the main partition and it would freeze up...

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-08-17 07:28pm

Give us some specs, namely:

What brand of power supply do you have?
What's the total wattage it's rated for?
What's the total wattage it can deliver on the 12v line? (there should be a sticker on it somewhere, perhaps on the inside of the case (not the inside of the PSU) that has this listed)
How many drives is it powering?
What processor are you running?

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-08-17 08:19pm

Dahak wrote:Hm, might be a problem with your PSU...
Do you have enough free HD space on your windows partition for your page file? I once had the problem that Windows tried to get more swap space than was left on the main partition and it would freeze up...

More than plenty, 11 Gigs of free space on my Windows partition.

Uraniun:

- Macron manufactured PSU
- Maximum output in it reads 350 Watts
- Its powering 1 LG Manufacture DVD Burner,
1 Western Digital 80gb HD, 1 Seagate 160gb HD
- The processor Im using is a 2.4Ghz/800mhz P4 Northwood

Regarding the question of how much wattage it delivers on the 12 volt line, I couldnt see any obvious sticker for this in it, though its rather dark in here being night and all so I'll take another look tomorrow.

Post by **Dalton** » 2005-08-17 08:38pm

Perhaps the card isn't quite seated properly?

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-08-18 03:59pm

Dalton wrote:Perhaps the card isn't quite seated properly?

Checked, and the extra power feed it requires is also properly attached.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-08-18 04:09pm

That PSU wouldn't be a Macron MPT-350, would it?

Because it's on a list of "unsafe, or potentially hazardous but not immediately dangerous" power supplies that was published by the Finnish Safety Tehnology Authority.

It's entirely possible that your PSU is a piece of crap even if you're within the claimed specs.

If you decide to get a new one, I highly recommend the SH/SC Power Supply Guide for picking out an appropriate PSU.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-08-18 04:23pm

All Im aware of is that its a Macron 350w power supply, whether its the MPT model I do not know. However, at the time when I got this from my brother who has been working on comp maintenance, and retail business for five years, and he said it was a good PSU. And the MPT-350 is listed as having a dual fan, mine has only a single fan.

At the moment, the PSU feels like being the only answer to the problem since it most certainly doesnt feel like a software issue.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-08-18 04:54pm

Did a bit of math using that site you provided Uraniun, and if Im right then the problem cant be in the PSU. According to the label in the PSU, it provides 15A in the +12v rail. Ok, so using a base value of 4A for my Processor, 3A for the GPU, then 2A + 2A for the HD's, 2A for the DVD-ROM/DVD-Burner and 1-2A for Cooling and Motherboard, the end result is 14-15A power draw on the 15A rail. Ofcourse, its possible that the 15A is overly inflated, and the damn thing doesnt actually provide that much or the PSU itself has some issues but this doesnt lend much credence for the theory that the PSU is the cause of the fault.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-08-18 07:19pm

Intermittent problems are very often caused by faulty power supplies, and not always because the PSU is being overworked; sometimes a shitty power supply is just a shitty power supply.

However, it should be noted that if the manufacturer is so shitty as to have one of it's components declared "potentially hazardous", it's entirely likely that their power supplies are not going to stand up to being maxed out, and it's entirely possible that the label is overly optimistic.

The power supply seems most likely at fault to me. If you're unconvinced, you could try putting your new vid card in a friend's system to see if it'll crash there.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-09-17 07:37am

Firstly, sorry for necroing this, but I decided to add an update to the situation.

So, I switched to an Enermax 430W power supply, from what I heard its the best that can be bought with the money I invested on it. Well, at first it seemed as if the problem was solved, but after I had left my comp on for 24 hours and used it again, the old problem struck back. And then I decided to observe the temperature levels a bit.

It was the fucking temperature allright. Yesterday, when I used my old gimmick for testing if the problem persists, it didnt occur, and my temperature levels were 7 degrees lower than usually. Today, when it occurred the temperature levels were 50 degrees on the 6600GT and 32 on ambient temperature. So, I plug a large floor fan to blow right in to the damn computer and get the temperature to drop, and surprise surprise, the problem vanishes. But again when the temperature goes up, the problem comes back.

However, the oddity here is that the default core slowdown threshold for the GPU is 127 degrees, and the problem occurs frequently when its running at only 50 degrees. So, this leads me to thinking that I have a fucked up GPU. Or its something else that its overheating and thus causing the problem, it should be noted that the chipset fan in my motherboard isnt working so its possible that its actually the mobo thats overheating and causing this.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-09-17 07:39am

Are you sure your not reading 50C and 127F?

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-09-17 12:08pm

Ace Pace wrote:Are you sure your not reading 50C and 127F?

http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/Image1.jpg

Nope. 127 celsius threshold and 50 celsius core temperature.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-09-17 12:49pm

127C shutdown is very weird.

General Brock · Post by **General Brock** » 2005-09-17 09:38pm

Rightous Fist Of Heaven wrote: It was the fucking temperature allright. ...

However, the oddity here is that the default core slowdown threshold for the GPU is 127 degrees, and the problem occurs frequently when its running at only 50 degrees. So, this leads me to thinking that I have a fucked up GPU. Or its something else that its overheating and thus causing the problem, it should be noted that the chipset fan in my motherboard isnt working so its possible that its actually the mobo thats overheating and causing this.

Just in case you are getting heat damage, can you fix the motherboard fan, then exchange the 6600GT for a new one?

Whenever deinstalling/reinstalling I usually run a registry cleaner, check out My Programs for holdouts, then defrag, just to be on the safe side.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-09-18 01:20pm

General Brock wrote:
Rightous Fist Of Heaven wrote: It was the fucking temperature allright. ...

However, the oddity here is that the default core slowdown threshold for the GPU is 127 degrees, and the problem occurs frequently when its running at only 50 degrees. So, this leads me to thinking that I have a fucked up GPU. Or its something else that its overheating and thus causing the problem, it should be noted that the chipset fan in my motherboard isnt working so its possible that its actually the mobo thats overheating and causing this.
Just in case you are getting heat damage, can you fix the motherboard fan, then exchange the 6600GT for a new one?

Whenever deinstalling/reinstalling I usually run a registry cleaner, check out My Programs for holdouts, then defrag, just to be on the safe side.

Switched the mobo fan to a new one, problem persists. Next test will be to switch my old 9600XT back and see if the problem comes back, if it doesnt, well that leaves me with a one screwed up 6600GT.