Xbox 360 pricing announced (no HDD in base model)

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Praxis
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Post by Praxis »

SirNitram wrote: On the other hand, the original X-Box proved a handy toy for those wanting to do certain types of computing, as I recall. People set them up for all sorts of things with hacks; I'm sure the next gen consoles will get similar jerryrigging. But this is far and away from any valid comparison of a gaming rig vs. a game console.
As far as I remember, Sony is still planning on installing Linux on the hard drive by default on the PS3, so no jerryrigging is necessary :D

Spoofe, how exactly do you compare PC price/performance to console price/performance? A PC does WAY more things than a console (even dedicated gamers use their computers for things other than gaming.
I'm trying to figure out how he compares the price/performance of ANYTHING there, when the PS3's price is not unveiled and you can't really compare the performace of a PC with a console.

Also, I think price/performance is a VERY limited way of looking at things. Otherwise, the $399 XBox 360 is a horrible deal because it has the same performance as the $299 XBox 360 but a higher price!

Other things matter too. If the PS3 is a bit more expensive, but has Blu-ray and WiFi and Bluetooth built in (WiFi is a $99 addon for the XBox 360), it looks a LOT better. Consider; an XBox 360 with WiFi is $399 with no hard drive or any of the extras, if you want WiFi. The needs of the consumer change the prices. If you don't want WiFi, then you don't care about that, but if you do want WiFi, suddenly the price advantage of the XBox 360 takes a serious hit.

You have to look at price vs performance and capabilities.
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Post by SirNitram »

Praxis wrote:
SirNitram wrote: On the other hand, the original X-Box proved a handy toy for those wanting to do certain types of computing, as I recall. People set them up for all sorts of things with hacks; I'm sure the next gen consoles will get similar jerryrigging. But this is far and away from any valid comparison of a gaming rig vs. a game console.
As far as I remember, Sony is still planning on installing Linux on the hard drive by default on the PS3, so no jerryrigging is necessary :D
This is confirmed? Cool!
Spoofe, how exactly do you compare PC price/performance to console price/performance? A PC does WAY more things than a console (even dedicated gamers use their computers for things other than gaming.
I'm trying to figure out how he compares the price/performance of ANYTHING there, when the PS3's price is not unveiled and you can't really compare the performace of a PC with a console.
Well, it has to do with being brain damaged...
Also, I think price/performance is a VERY limited way of looking at things. Otherwise, the $399 XBox 360 is a horrible deal because it has the same performance as the $299 XBox 360 but a higher price!
The hard drive would improve performance, but yea. It's definately gonna rip consumers off this way. No surprise; it's Microsoft.
Other things matter too. If the PS3 is a bit more expensive, but has Blu-ray and WiFi and Bluetooth built in (WiFi is a $99 addon for the XBox 360), it looks a LOT better. Consider; an XBox 360 with WiFi is $399 with no hard drive or any of the extras, if you want WiFi. The needs of the consumer change the prices. If you don't want WiFi, then you don't care about that, but if you do want WiFi, suddenly the price advantage of the XBox 360 takes a serious hit.
I beleive wifi is only confirmed on the Rev, but you may be right.
You have to look at price vs performance and capabilities.
Or you could post angrily and be mocked. We don't disallow that option, we just mock it.
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Post by Praxis »


This is confirmed? Cool!
Now, Sony has promised features they never showed up (PS2 supposedly had AIM chat), but by Sony's more recent comments it seems they're planning on doing so.


June:
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/624/624046p1.html
And that operating system is... whatever you want it to be, apparently. Sony is looking into having Linux installed from the start on the PS3 hard disk. Referring to Linux as being "legacy," Kutaragi adds that it's just the start, as with Cell, the operating system runs as an application on top of the basic Cell OS. The presence of the Cell OS allows for multiple operating systems to run on the machine simultaneously, including, of course, Linux, but also making room for Windows and Apple's Tiger OS.

With an operating system in place, Kutaragi hopes to create an environment in which people produce software for Cell and the PS3 -- and not just game software. Kutaragi hopes to see complex applications such as high definition video editing software running on the system. He comments that user interfaces will improve much more quickly than what's happening in the PC world today, and that this will have a direct impact on games. Additionally, Kutaragi feels that an open environment will allow for more advanced game development tools above the libraries that Sony has provided for its systems in the past.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/09 ... 27219.html
In an interview with Impress PC Watch, Kutaragi disclosed that he plans to install the Linux operating system on the PS3's hard disc drive (HDD) so it will be recognized as a computer, rather than a mere console.

But while Linux would require a hard drive to run on, Kutaragi told Impress PC Watch, "We're not going to equip [the PS3 with] a HDD by default, because no matter how much [capacity] we put in it, it won't be enough." It was unclear whether he was referring to the previously known fact that the PS3 would not have an internal hard drive or whether he was indicating that the device would not come with the external 2.5-inch detachable HDD outlined in the specs revealed at E3.
August:

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000577053229/
A recent article on the Sony website confirms that they’re still looking into the possibility of the PS3 running Linux or Tiger — or at least that they’ve got some really wishful thinking going on that Stevie J is gonna license OS X for use in the box.
Looks like Sony wants an OS to run on the PS3 for sure, and would LIKE to run OS X but aren't sure if Apple will agree, and have Linux to fall back to otherwise. Kutaragi has said it could run Linux or Tiger multiple times.

I beleive wifi is only confirmed on the Rev, but you may be right.


http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614682p1.html

PS3 specs include 802.11 b/g. The XBox 360 specs on the other hand said "WiFi Ready" (like many laptops do; it means you need to buy a WiFi card and it works). The PS3 has it listed as part of the specs.
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Post by SPOOFE »

Spoofe, how exactly do you compare PC price/performance to console price/performance?
Gaming. Duh.
A PC does WAY more things than a console (even dedicated gamers use their computers for things other than gaming.
And a console does one thing WAY better per buck than any PC ever will. When will you guys get this? I understand that a computer "does more". I'm posting to you yahoos FROM A COMPUTER. But while you're arguing Topic Z, I'm way back over here at Topic A... games.
Yes, actually. If I made such before the announcement of the hardware still being in review, I rescind them. You, on the other hand, stand there looking like a moron with an axe to grind.
No you're backpeddling. Did you not notice I clarified my comments LONG before you got around to completely rescinding yours? Is there a single thing my comments - post-clarification - gotr wrong?

Nope.

YOU, meanwhile, were trying to be the Big Bad Tough Guy, spouting more insults than intelligence, and now you've got your foot in your mouth. You lose, twinkletoes.
Not I. I'm just mocking you as you make lots of noise.
Ad hominems because you know you're wrong, you mean. It's okay. I went through third grade, too... I remember the intellectual limitations that children have back then.
Any indication that you know what the PS3 will ship as and sell for.
Which I admitted to in my second post, and summarily clarified. So much for me standing here "looking like a moron with an axe to grind" as your primitive intellect stammered.
No, I just don't humour those whose syphilis has completely obliterated their brains.
Yet you humor yourself. I note a contradiction.
The system proposed is not the pinnacle of affordability and function promised by the retards running on the open plains of the internet.
Never claimed it was. First ad hominems, now strawmen. You're REALLY wriggling to get out of this one, aren't you?
If you were less of a brain-damaged retard, you'd even notice I wasn't talking about the people here and your pathetic need to scream and shout.
And if your cerebral mass weren't adequately measured in milligrams, you'd notice that my response to you was a request for clarification as to what you meant. You instead used invective and ad hominems. Can't say I'm surprised, though.
But you're a moron. So instead we'll be treated to you trying desperately to scream 'BUT YOU DID SAY THIS HARDWARE WAS BETTER, EVEN WHEN YOUR FIRST POST DOESN'T EVEN MENTION THE PS3!!!!!! YOU DID! YOU DID!'. Oh well. No change there.
So you admit your hypocrisy, and yet somehow try to turn it back around on me. Would that fall under "poisoning the well"? Man, you're just full of fallacies tonight.

EDIT:
I'm trying to figure out how he compares the price/performance of ANYTHING there, when the PS3's price is not unveiled and you can't really compare the performace of a PC with a console.
Sure you can compare the performance of a PC with a console. You just can't do it in a way that looks favorable to the PC from casual gaming perspective, so you insecure little pussies mindlessly attack anyonw, Nitram-style, that dares to suggest that the PC ain't the Golden Mean of All That Is.
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Post by Praxis »

Sure you can compare the performance of a PC with a console. You just can't do it in a way that looks favorable to the PC from casual gaming perspective, so you insecure little pussies mindlessly attack anyonw, Nitram-style, that dares to suggest that the PC ain't the Golden Mean of All That Is.
Alright then, let's compare the price/performance of a PC and console. Go ahead, build me a $300 PC that'll outperform the XBox 360, or a $400 or $500 (whatever they price it at) PC that'll outperform the PS3.

Then get me an XBox 360 that can do the same things my PC can.

It's Apple's and Oranges.

And you also skipped my question of how you compare XBox 360 to PS3's price/performance when you don't know the price.
Last edited by Praxis on 2005-08-18 03:26pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SirNitram »

SPOOFE wrote:
Yes, actually. If I made such before the announcement of the hardware still being in review, I rescind them. You, on the other hand, stand there looking like a moron with an axe to grind.
No you're backpeddling. Did you not notice I clarified my comments LONG before you got around to completely rescinding yours? Is there a single thing my comments - post-clarification - gotr wrong?

Nope.
Heh. Outright lie, as anyone whose read this thread can see. You're cute, SPOOFE. Very cute. You state we can see the X-Box is better by performance vs. price when we have almost no data on the others. So. You're full of shit. No surprise.
YOU, meanwhile, were trying to be the Big Bad Tough Guy, spouting more insults than intelligence, and now you've got your foot in your mouth. You lose, twinkletoes.
You live in a bizarre fanasyland, kiddo. Then again, you're also the raving inbred who decided to attack a comment referring to /.'s cretins as if it had kicked your dog.
Not I. I'm just mocking you as you make lots of noise.
Ad hominems because you know you're wrong, you mean. It's okay. I went through third grade, too... I remember the intellectual limitations that children have back then.
Come on, kid. Are you going to do anything but dance around? You never showed these terrible comments which amount to hypocrisy on my part, but you're screeching like you've shown you won a debate.

Oh, wait. It's SPOOFE. He can't debate, it requires too many braincells...
Any indication that you know what the PS3 will ship as and sell for.
Which I admitted to in my second post, and summarily clarified. So much for me standing here "looking like a moron with an axe to grind" as your primitive intellect stammered.
Yet, in that same post, you claimed that the X-Box was better for performance, without knowing the performane of competitors. You're an outright liar and a hypocrit.
No, I just don't humour those whose syphilis has completely obliterated their brains.
Yet you humor yourself. I note a contradiction.
Only if your second grade attempts at insults were accurate, kiddo. Keep at it, maybe you'll amount to something.
The system proposed is not the pinnacle of affordability and function promised by the retards running on the open plains of the internet.
Never claimed it was. First ad hominems, now strawmen. You're REALLY wriggling to get out of this one, aren't you?
Never said you claimed it was, you insipid retard. Did you miss my second post in your frantic, automasturbatory attempt to show up Big, Mean Nitram?
Here? Possibly. But we don't get many X-Box idiots here.
Therefore a sensible person would conclude I wasn't referring to arguments here. But you're not sensible.
If you were less of a brain-damaged retard, you'd even notice I wasn't talking about the people here and your pathetic need to scream and shout.
And if your cerebral mass weren't adequately measured in milligrams, you'd notice that my response to you was a request for clarification as to what you meant. You instead used invective and ad hominems. Can't say I'm surprised, though.
Outright lie. You made the following assertions in this 'request for clarification':
Affordability relative to what? The PS3? Still a better deal.
Which is a lie because existing data doesn't support it, due to inadequete data. Of course, you claim to have 'clarified'.. Except in the post of the clarification you still claim..
(Why better:)Price/performance ratio, dumbshit.
Oops. You're lying. No surprise.
But you're a moron. So instead we'll be treated to you trying desperately to scream 'BUT YOU DID SAY THIS HARDWARE WAS BETTER, EVEN WHEN YOUR FIRST POST DOESN'T EVEN MENTION THE PS3!!!!!! YOU DID! YOU DID!'. Oh well. No change there.
So you admit your hypocrisy, and yet somehow try to turn it back around on me. Would that fall under "poisoning the well"? Man, you're just full of fallacies tonight.
Maybe you should educate yourself, kiddo. I've committed no fallacies. I've been insulting you while demanding you show any proof for your claims the X-Box is a better deal. But since you've got none, you hastily snip-snip and try and pretend I've just posted insults.

It's a pity that you think this is gonna fly. Oh well. It's not like a sycophantic inbreed who couldn't debate his way out of a paper bag is gonna affect me.
EDIT:
I'm trying to figure out how he compares the price/performance of ANYTHING there, when the PS3's price is not unveiled and you can't really compare the performace of a PC with a console.
Sure you can compare the performance of a PC with a console. You just can't do it in a way that looks favorable to the PC from casual gaming perspective, so you insecure little pussies mindlessly attack anyonw, Nitram-style, that dares to suggest that the PC ain't the Golden Mean of All That Is.
Awwww, how cute. The little trolling shithead doesn't answer the question, just insults everyone else. ANd he claims anyone else is throwing Ad Hominems? He's just adorable, isn't he folks?
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Post by Praxis »

I need to get me some popcorn. This is great stuff.
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Post by Max »

This is why I stay out of serious chat as much as I can on this board.

Do you think that MS will drop the prices when the PS3 is launched? Dropping prices and releasing Halo 3 at the same time would probobly push a lot of systems.
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Post by HyperionX »

Without a doubt this is the best photoshop I've seen so far:

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:lol:
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Post by Master of Ossus »

SPOOFE wrote:
Spoofe, how exactly do you compare PC price/performance to console price/performance?
Gaming. Duh.
A PC does WAY more things than a console (even dedicated gamers use their computers for things other than gaming.
And a console does one thing WAY better per buck than any PC ever will. When will you guys get this? I understand that a computer "does more". I'm posting to you yahoos FROM A COMPUTER. But while you're arguing Topic Z, I'm way back over here at Topic A... games.
In other words, you come up with some UTTERLY MEANINGLESS bullshit, since NO ONE buys a computer only for gaming. Get this through your thick skull. A price/performance comparison is MEANINGLESS when you inexplicably throw out an unbelievably huge chunk of one system's performance. If you're comparing cars to SUV's, do you blindly ignore all things except gas mileage or all things except cargo capacity?

Blanket price/performance ratios are extremely suspect, anyway, especially when comparing systems, and since the PS3 has abilities that the X360 will not have then I have questions as to how you're generating such a categorization in the first place.
I'm trying to figure out how he compares the price/performance of ANYTHING there, when the PS3's price is not unveiled and you can't really compare the performace of a PC with a console.
Sure you can compare the performance of a PC with a console. You just can't do it in a way that looks favorable to the PC from casual gaming perspective, so you insecure little pussies mindlessly attack anyonw, Nitram-style, that dares to suggest that the PC ain't the Golden Mean of All That Is.
What the fuck are you talking about? A PC slaughters a console in terms of casual gaming. Why? Because a PC DOES THINGS OTHER THAN GAMING that are necessary for most people in first-world countries, today. A low-end, $400-$500 PC will provide a casual gamer with a reasonable base with which they can play an incredible variety of games AND they can use it AS A COMPUTER. Your hypothetical, "casual gamer" would pay $300-$400 for a console and its peripherals, AND would have to pay for a $400-$500 computer BECAUSE THEY NEED A COMPUTER, ANYWAY. Notice that I didn't include bullshit in the cost of the console, such as a television, because it's assumed that a casual gamer will already own a television.

Final tally:

Casual gamer with computer: $400-$500

Casual gamer with computer and console: $$700-$1000

A casual gamer who wants to skimp the $300 that a console would cost them could easily spend it on upgrading their PC to a $700-$1000 machine that actually WOULD put out GAMING performance with the next generation of consoles (especially if they waited to purchase it until the X360 actually comes out), AND THEY STILL GET THE BENEFITS OF HAVING A COMPUTER.

Final tally: only people who do not intend to buy computers but DO wish to partake in gaming will benefit economically by purchasing a console. If our casual gamer friend also has some peripherals like a monitor left over from their last system, then the comparison tilts even further towards the PC. If you assume that the casual gamer already has an entire computer (as most casual gamers do), then he can almost certainly take components like the monitor, case, keyboard, mouse, etc. and get a new machine built fairly inexpensively (although in this case, depending on how much of an upgrade is needed, the console could come out ahead), IF he's unwilling to ignore the newest games.

A PC also provides a substantial benefit to our "casual gamer" friend since, unlike the next generation of consoles, it is upgradeable (and I don't mean with more controllers or a hard-drive). For a casual gamer, this is no small benefit because it means they can switch in newer, better parts when they work up enough disposable income, whereas the console is stuck with the same basic hardware.

Edit: And all of this assumes that the guy either has an HDTV or is willing to stick with his old TV (thus decreasing the actual gaming experience to something that is well below computer-quality). If he has to purchase a new HDTV, then he's looking at another $500+ easily, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a computer in that price range that wouldn't beat the shit out of the upcoming consoles.
Last edited by Master of Ossus on 2005-08-19 03:59pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PA link

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Post by desertjedi »

http://www.xbox360news.com/Blogs/News/hqs/blr_347.aspx

Mods, please use your god-like powers and dress this link if you wish... only if you wish it!

Looks like Xbox 360 games will retail for $49.99 after all. Thank goodness, because shelling out $60-$70 bucks a game was a wee bit much...

EDIT: I should add that it LOOKS like they will sell for $49.99... I hope this site isn't made by fanboys...
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