Yoda and The Chosen One

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2005-08-17 01:36am

If there was even a remote chance that Anakin was The Chosen One that prophecy spoke of, why, oh why would you leave the training of someone who may be so important to a newly knighted Jedi?
Why didn't Yoda take him as a Padawan, or Mace or hell, anyone on the council? Why leave it to a beginer?

To my knowledge there isn't really any info on this subject... Any thoughts?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-08-17 01:38am

Well for one thing, it wasn't Yoda's job: his job is working with the younglings.

DrkHelmet · Post by **DrkHelmet** » 2005-08-17 01:42am

Perhaps he felt that if Anakin was tossed to a stranger, that he would become more afraid and become susceptible to the dark side. Of course, he already was susceptible to the dark side, but that's another topic entirely.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2005-08-17 01:48am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Well for one thing, it wasn't Yoda's job: his job is working with the younglings.

True, but the Jedi also weren't supposed to allow him to train at all because of his age right? So apparently it wasn't going to be your run of the mill training already. And since they already knew he was suseptible (sp?) to the Dark Side, wouldn't Yoda have made a little better of a choice than Obi-Wan, who mind you almost died because he gave into his anger... granted he did overcome it to emerge victorious.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2005-08-17 02:36am

havokeff wrote:And since they already knew he was suseptible (sp?) to the Dark Side, wouldn't Yoda have made a little better of a choice than Obi-Wan, who mind you almost died because he gave into his anger... granted he did overcome it to emerge victorious.

Are you referring to the battle with Darth Maul? Sorry, it's been a while since I saw 'The Phantom Menace'.

Back to the subject, who do you think will do a better job as Master to Anakin INSTEAD OF Yoda, who, anyways, lacks the empathy to understand Anakin and the will to EFFECTIVELY help the boy deal with his emotional problems. (For all of Obi-Wan's faults, he does have the empathy and the will, if not the skill.)

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2005-08-17 03:01am

Yes, that's what i was referring to.

Mace might have been a good choice. He is stern, but compassionate. He seems to dance with the Dark Side but maintain himself, something Anakin could have learned how to do. We really don't get to know any of the other masters that well through the movies. The EU doesn't seem to show to much else about the Jedi in the movies either. So it seems there would only be a couple of choices based on what we know. maybe a female to help compensate for missing his mom... maybe that would have made him resent her as a teacher?

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-08-17 03:18am

You think Anakin would have trusted anyone from the council after they refused to train him in TPM? Not that i think Obi-Wan would have been a better choice in that regard ("another pathetic lifeform").

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-08-17 04:05am

How is Mace Windu a good choice, when he is:

1) Top Dog of the Jedi Council. (Sure, Yoda is more powerful, but I get the feeling that Mace gets the final word.)
2) Doesn't think Anakin is The Chosen One.
3) Doesn't like the idea of teaching Anakin, period.
4) Doesn't like Anakin.
5) Doesn't trust Anakin even after he has been a Jedi for 10+ years AND FOUGHT VALIENTLY THROUGHOUT THE CLONE WARS. (This is a post-hoc reason, yes, but it shows just how unchanging Mace is with his opinions of people.)

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2005-08-17 04:07am

actually i wasn't looking to post my opinion... I know what I think... I was hoping to get some outside perspective and thoughts.

DoctorPhanan · Post by **DoctorPhanan** » 2005-08-17 04:14am

I was under the impressin that Anakin wouldn't have even recieved training if Qui-Gon didn't volunteer/thereaten to do so himself. And when Obi-Wan decided that he would train Anakin himself, it seemed to me that Yoda was thinking "well, I can't stop you so go ahead"

The Jazz Intern · Post by **The Jazz Intern** » 2005-08-17 11:23pm

From What I remember, After obi wan kills maul, he goes back and is sitting with yoda. yoda says that the council wount allow it. Then obi wan threatens to train anakin with or without the councils permission to grant his masters final wish. Then yoda says "Fine! the council agrees!" I think yoda was the last vote. You know, the eleventh man. I personally don't think yoda would do it. Anakin has to much hate. Luke had a hard time at first. Besides, Obi wan is friendlier. I think this because he became a father figure to luke within days. so, Anakin was best with obi wan

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-08-17 11:41pm

Yoda wouldn't have been able to connect with Anakin. As DW wrote, by ROTS it became apparent that Yoda cared more about the letter of the law (as in the Code) than the spirit of the law. Imagine how Yoda would react to the Anakin/Padme relationship. Attachment is not allowed in the Jedi Order, so he'd basically have to force Anakin to sever the relationship.

As for Mace, even worse. He's downright psychologically abusive towards Anakin.

Obi-Wan was the best choice for Anakin. There is a pretty minor age difference (so Obi-Wan could, theoretically, "relate" more to Anakin than the older masters). They also grew very close over the years in a way that Yoda and Mace would not be able to do (Yoda is too stand-offish, and Mace just plain doesn't like him). Add to that that Obi-Wan knew about the affair between Anakin and Padme, but did not attempt to break it up because he realized that its cessation would do more harm than good. Basically if it weren't for Palpatine's influence and the other masters' negative treatment, Obi-Wan would have been able to mold Anakin into a really badass Jedi.

Admiral Drason · Post by **Admiral Drason** » 2005-08-18 12:04am

I think its harsh to say Obi-wan had brushed the Dark Side just because he lost his cool when Qui Gon died.

He lost his cool that dosent mean he actually brushed the dark side. I mean the kid just lost his father like figure and he knows he has to fight a Sith Lord. I dont think any Padawan would have done any better in the face of those events.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-08-18 04:16am

Admiral Drason wrote:He lost his cool that dosent mean he actually brushed the dark side. I mean the kid just lost his father like figure and he knows he has to fight a Sith Lord. I dont think any Padawan would have done any better in the face of those events.

Well put.

Civil War Man wrote:Basically if it weren't for Palpatine's influence and the other masters' negative treatment, Obi-Wan would have been able to mold Anakin into a really badass Jedi.

Never thought about this before.. I agree.

I wonder what Mace had against Anakin, though. Is the cause for his animosity explained?

The Jazz Intern · Post by **The Jazz Intern** » 2005-08-18 05:47pm

He always thought the boy was dangerous, too old, and haad funky hair! (just kidding about the last one!

)

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-08-18 05:58pm

Jealousy and envy, since with Anakin more powerful than him he would no longer be BMF?

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-08-18 10:27pm

It's actually an interesting question. Although the novelization makes clear that getting Obi-Wan sent off to the other side of the galaxy was Sidious's plan for a peak conversion period on Anakin, what would have happened had Anakin been able to contact Obi-Wan after Palpatine revealed himself, even if only by Holonet hologram?

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2005-08-19 03:09am

Civil War Man wrote:As for Mace, even worse. He's downright psychologically abusive towards Anakin.

While I haven't read to much of the EU set in the Prequel days, I have to say that this seems to be an overstatement. I know that Mace distrusts Anakin's judgement, but abusive?

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2005-08-19 03:11am

Admiral Drason wrote:I think its harsh to say Obi-wan had brushed the Dark Side just because he lost his cool when Qui Gon died.

He lost his cool that dosent mean he actually brushed the dark side. I mean the kid just lost his father like figure and he knows he has to fight a Sith Lord. I dont think any Padawan would have done any better in the face of those events.

I thought this was a fact? Didn't I read this in several places? Oh, maybe I'm just going crazy.

Dakarne · Post by **Dakarne** » 2005-08-19 06:23am

I think Mace would have grown a lot more understanding towards Anakin, had he trained him. The point is, none of the alternative Jedi in question ever truly got to know Anakin... I personally think the best person to have trained Anakin, would have been Qui-Gon. Or possibly... if he'd remained on the light side of the force: Count Dooku.

Arcen · Post by **Arcen** » 2005-08-19 08:33am

Just what was the Jedi Council thinking anyway? Anakin had shown how talented he was going to be and they had already discovered the Sith had returned. What kind of thinking went into not training Anakin? Were they planning to use him like a staked out piece of meat to capture/kill the Sith who would have tried to recruit him sooner or later? Not attempting to train him would have been out of the question from the very beginning or should have been.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-08-19 08:46am

havokeff wrote:I thought this was a fact? Didn't I read this in several places? Oh, maybe I'm just going crazy.

I think it was the TPM:VD. By the strict definitions of the Jedi, being pissed because your Master is killed is brushing the dark side. You are supposed to let go, say "Good bye, Qui-Gon", and get right back to that nice Jedi peace state.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-08-19 11:43am

havokeff wrote:
Civil War Man wrote:As for Mace, even worse. He's downright psychologically abusive towards Anakin.
While I haven't read to much of the EU set in the Prequel days, I have to say that this seems to be an overstatement. I know that Mace distrusts Anakin's judgement, but abusive?

If you know someone who does not trust you, and they point that fact out directly to your face every time they get the chance, would you not consider them psychologically abusive?

When Anakin goes to Mace Windu and reveals the identity of the Sith Lord they've been searching for the entire war, Mace says his most gracious words to Anakin ever: "If what you are saying is true, then I will trust you." You're talking to a Jedi who has distinguished himself a million times in the war you are fighting, and you don't even trust him to tell the truth? Way to win the fucking hearts and minds, Mace.

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2005-08-19 07:25pm

havokeff wrote:Yes, that's what i was referring to.

Mace might have been a good choice. He is stern, but compassionate. He seems to dance with the Dark Side but maintain himself, something Anakin could have learned how to do. We really don't get to know any of the other masters that well through the movies. The EU doesn't seem to show to much else about the Jedi in the movies either. So it seems there would only be a couple of choices based on what we know. maybe a female to help compensate for missing his mom... maybe that would have made him resent her as a teacher?

There is no possible way that Mace could have trained Anakin. Since Anakin was already to old to be a Jedi Padawan he is at some loss. Add the fact that Mace Windu uses one of hte most deadly and Dark Force fence hopping lightsaber technique (Vaapad) which he only successfully taught to one Padawan. All in all Anakin would have killed himself

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2005-08-19 08:14pm

Simple reason why Obi-wan would have been chosen. The Sith have returned, Anakin is heraled as the chosen one who would bring balance back to the force, the Jedi (Obi-Wan and the council in particular) assumed that Anakin was destined to destroy the Sith, Obi-Wan was the only Jedi in recent times to kill a Sith in combat so it makes sense to put them togeather.