Bickering christians debating creation topics.

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Magnetic
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Bickering christians debating creation topics.

Post by Magnetic »

creationsresource.org and Answers in Genesis are bickering about their theories, which were put out in a book, Unlocking the Mysteries of Creation" by Dennis Petersen.

I clicked on a couple of links of this 'debate':

++http://www.tccsa.tc/articles/p11.html
++http://www.tccsa.tc/articles/p3.html
++http://www.creationresource.org/read_reviews.htm

The one I found to be the most idiotic was a debate about how technologically advanced "ancient" people were, because they "lived longer prior to the flood...."

Here's a *cough* fascinating look at a response to AiG comment against ancient advancments.
AiG wrote: “Page 200 — Continues the theme of strong hints at the high technology before the Flood; to cement the fact that it is not just talking about some ingenuity, on page 201, it stretches Solomon's ‘nothing new under the sun' Bible comment to mean this: ‘Whatever we discover or invent has already existed in “ancient” time.' By definition, that means that laptop computers, atom bombs, moon rockets, MRI scanners, etc., are all not original, but were previously discovered and lost. This is obviously ‘stretching it' to an extreme point.”
creationresources.org wrote:There are a few of your review sections dedicated to attacking the notion of ancient high technology. It was two men who worked on bicycles that created and flew the first modern airplane; the Wright Brothers, late in 1903. Less than 66 years later (July 1969) the United States landed two men on the Moon. 66 years is not a very long time. Could our distant ancestors with clear minds and long life spans have had the equivalent of bicycle technology and internal combustion engines, prior to the Flood? Would you dogmatically argue against this?

If just one Isaac Newton, or Thomas Edison, or Albert Einstein lived prior to the Flood and had literally hundreds of years to experiment and do research, what could have been possible? What if there had been a handful of such sinful men building their respective research upon each other's discoveries? They had some 1600 years altogether, according to Scripture.

We know that modern evolutionists have been insisting for years now that if we find any kind of life at all outside of Earth then this will be proof positive for evolution. I must, as an educated layperson researcher, strongly disagree. There is another theory. Humans have always been intelligent but often unwise. However your highly vaunted science experts appear willing to concede such basic Creation Science understanding out of ignorance in the areas of human nature, Scripture, history and even the basic sciences.

We have a variety of anomalous human-made tools that have been found in deep strata. Some of these metal alloys cannot be duplicated today. The truth is that we do not know how some of them were made. Magnificent stone structures lie in mute testimony to the high technology of ages past. We do not have cranes today capable of lifting and moving some of the larger of these impressive edifices. You dare to challenge the theories that ancient man had higher technology in certain areas than we do today? You do so out of hubris and profound ignorance. Get your proverbial heads out of the sand and just look at the evidence. Your lack of scientific expertise in some areas shows that you should be reviewing this book in order to learn but not instead to criticize it at all costs.

What were the motives of your book reviewers? Do you not know the Scriptures? A basic principle deduced from the Word is that humans have always been intelligent but often unwise. Evolutionists though, teach that we're trending upward. Yes, from slime but now up to humans and someday we'll evolve even higher. But Scripture teaches that we're fallen though still made in the image of God. We can be extremely creative. We remain wicked and in need of a Savior. Your criticism of ancient high technology appears to concur with evolutionist propaganda and generalizations. This is disturbing. And it also appears to be at odds with both the scientific evidence that ancient man had high technology and Scriptural texts which reveal glimpses of this.

Have you not read:

Gen 4:20-22 (KJV) "And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and [of such as have] cattle. And his brother's name [was] Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain [was] Naamah."

Here in three short verses we see the summarized introduction of ranching, music and iron working. It's brief but nonetheless accurate. The evolutionists teach such progressive sounding concepts as "Bronze Age" then, many hundreds of years later, the "Iron Age," etc. You appear ready to join them in criticizing a plain reading of Scripture. Making iron implements had actually become known early in the antediluvian world. It was being taught by Tubalcain. That's what my Bible says. Would you so brazenly criticize summaries and generalizations within Scripture itself (like a succinct three verse summary) as you would those made by the author of "Unlocking the Mysteries of Creation"? Your experts appear to be selectively intolerant and generally lacking in love. I encourage AiG's science experts to study the Scriptures. There is much that they appear yet in need to learn by just reading and understanding the relevant verses at least one time through.
Utterly amazing. . . . . . their 'logic'.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

The only "mystery" is how a rational species like Homo sapiens produced such deluded offspring.
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Post by sparrowtm »

Who knows, with people like that spreading their DNA, we might evolve backwards until our average intelligence equals that of a demented mosquito.
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Post by kheegster »

Am I the only one has the image of two retards playing tennis coming into my head whilst i read this?
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Post by drachefly »

The difference is, retards can be good at tennis.
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Post by LeftWingExtremist »

Who knows, with people like that spreading their DNA, we might evolve backwards until our average intelligence equals that of a demented mosquito.
luckily they think sex is 'T3h E\/1L' and we might outreproduce them.
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

sparrowtm wrote:Who knows, with people like that spreading their DNA, we might evolve backwards until our average intelligence equals that of a demented mosquito.
One cannot "evolve backwards". Evolution is not a two-way street.
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Post by The Spartan »

LeftWingExtremist wrote:luckily they think sex is 'T3h E\/1L' and we might outreproduce them.
Except that many of them think that having many children is a blessing from god, once you're married. And they're less likely to use birth control because of their nonsensical abstinence only sex education.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

I just love this:
We have a variety of anomalous human-made tools that have been found in deep strata. Some of these metal alloys cannot be duplicated today. The truth is that we do not know how some of them were made. Magnificent stone structures lie in mute testimony to the high technology of ages past. We do not have cranes today capable of lifting and moving some of the larger of these impressive edifices. You dare to challenge the theories that ancient man had higher technology in certain areas than we do today?
He just states that the ancients had undiplicable alloys and construction techniques without citing any examples. No supporting evidence whatsoever. Modern technology can replicate, and even exeed the engineering feats of the ancients, and it can do so at a fraction of the time with a fraction of the manpower. Proof of this exists all around, in Paris (Eiffel Tower), in New York (the whole dammed city), Downtown Chicago, Signapore, Hong Kong, Beijing, Shangai, Caracas**, Tokyo, and any other modern city that you can think of.



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Post by Rye »

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
sparrowtm wrote:Who knows, with people like that spreading their DNA, we might evolve backwards until our average intelligence equals that of a demented mosquito.
One cannot "evolve backwards". Evolution is not a two-way street.
Well yes and no; for the no, organisms can regain lost traits and reactivate obsolete genes, stick insects regrew their wings, for instance. For the yes, reacquisition of lost old traits does not mean the new organism is an old one.
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

Rye wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:
sparrowtm wrote:Who knows, with people like that spreading their DNA, we might evolve backwards until our average intelligence equals that of a demented mosquito.
One cannot "evolve backwards". Evolution is not a two-way street.
Well yes and no; for the no, organisms can regain lost traits and reactivate obsolete genes, stick insects regrew their wings, for instance. For the yes, reacquisition of lost old traits does not mean the new organism is an old one.
Reacquisition of lost old traits is not "evolving backwards", though. :P
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Post by Winston Blake »

It was two men who worked on bicycles that created and flew the first modern airplane; the Wright Brothers, late in 1903. Less than 66 years later (July 1969) the United States landed two men on the Moon. 66 years is not a very long time. Could our distant ancestors with clear minds and long life spans have had the equivalent of bicycle technology and internal combustion engines, prior to the Flood? Would you dogmatically argue against this?
Yep, give a cave man a bicycle and a few decades, and he'll be landing on the moon and flying a nuclear bomber over your hometown. 'Supporting technology', what's that?
[You argue your side]. You do so out of hubris and profound ignorance. Get your proverbial heads out of the sand and just look at the evidence.
I wonder if they actually think like this or they're just parotting the rebuttals of their opponents.
What were the motives of your book reviewers? Do you not know the Scriptures?
Nope, no fallacy here, move along.
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Post by sparrowtm »

DPDarkPrimus wrote:One cannot "evolve backwards". Evolution is not a two-way street.
And computers aren't operated by disgruntled ant-queens on crack. Surprise, surprise.
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Post by Rye »

DPDarkPrimus wrote: Reacquisition of lost old traits is not "evolving backwards", though. :P
Yes, but it's not exactly a one way street either, is it? ;)
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

Rye wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote: Reacquisition of lost old traits is not "evolving backwards", though. :P
Yes, but it's not exactly a one way street either, is it? ;)
Are you saying there's only one pothole on the road of eternity? :P
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

[quote="Adrian Laguna"]-snip-[quote]
My image dissapeared! *cries

If anyone wants to see it, right-click on the Angelfire logo and go to properties. You should see the url, copy and paste it into your address bar and you should see the capital of Venezuela.
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Re: Bickering christians debating creation topics.

Post by CaptJodan »

AiG wrote: “Page 200 — Continues the theme of strong hints at the high technology before the Flood; to cement the fact that it is not just talking about some ingenuity, on page 201, it stretches Solomon's ‘nothing new under the sun' Bible comment to mean this: ‘Whatever we discover or invent has already existed in “ancient” time.' By definition, that means that laptop computers, atom bombs, moon rockets, MRI scanners, etc., are all not original, but were previously discovered and lost. This is obviously ‘stretching it' to an extreme point.” et al.
One would think that with all that superior technology running around, weather forecasters could have predicted the flood, and built themselves some boats too. It's the Ms. Cleo phenomenon.
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Re: Bickering christians debating creation topics.

Post by Magnetic »

CaptJodan wrote:
AiG wrote: “Page 200 — Continues the theme of strong hints at the high technology before the Flood; to cement the fact that it is not just talking about some ingenuity, on page 201, it stretches Solomon's ‘nothing new under the sun' Bible comment to mean this: ‘Whatever we discover or invent has already existed in “ancient” time.' By definition, that means that laptop computers, atom bombs, moon rockets, MRI scanners, etc., are all not original, but were previously discovered and lost. This is obviously ‘stretching it' to an extreme point.” et al.
One would think that with all that superior technology running around, weather forecasters could have predicted the flood, and built themselves some boats too. It's the Ms. Cleo phenomenon.
The fundies say that before the flood, it never rained. The ground was watered with the dew of the morning. . . . .. . . or something like that.
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Post by wolveraptor »

So basically they had mini-floods every morning instead of rain? Nice.
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Post by Magnetic »

wolveraptor wrote:So basically they had mini-floods every morning instead of rain? Nice.
Well, . . . . . .yeah, I guess. Really! They totally believe that rain was unknown to the people of the earth prior to the flood. I'm not sure where they get that. I guess somewhere there's a scripture verse about 'due watering the ground . . . .yadda yadda yadda'.
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Post by Magnetic »

Magnetic wrote:
wolveraptor wrote:So basically they had mini-floods every morning instead of rain? Nice.
Well, . . . . . .yeah, I guess. Really! They totally believe that rain was unknown to the people of the earth prior to the flood. I'm not sure where they get that. I guess somewhere there's a scripture verse about 'due watering the ground . . . .yadda yadda yadda'.
:roll: Moron edit: That's supposed to be DEW. . . . not 'due'. :roll:
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