Stargate SG-1, taking a poke at Christianity? (Season 9)

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-08-17 09:40pm

Isn't there a part where God and Abraham fight, wrestle around a bit? Or did I make that up?

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2005-08-17 09:53pm

Zero132132 wrote:Isn't there a part where God and Abraham fight, wrestle around a bit? Or did I make that up?

Wrestled with an Angel, and I believe it was Issac (Israel) who wrestled with the angel for a night and a day.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2005-08-17 09:55pm

Ghetto edit: It was Jacob, not Issac, who became "Israel".

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-08-17 10:17pm

So what.

He'd be a Go'uald "stringpuller" operating with a large network of Go'uald agents who pretend to be angels... His Jaffa would probably hop on the angelic image as well - could be cool to see Jaffa dressed up and looking like Sanguinus from 40k:

(though, having the wings "folded" would be more practical - but bright golden armour and white robes - they mightn't be too combat effective, but man would they EVER be fucking with the average christian SGC member.

Hell with Kinsey being such a fundie, imagine the results if some Go'uald "angels" started visiting him and giving him suggestions.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2005-08-17 10:19pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Zero132132 wrote:Isn't there a part where God and Abraham fight, wrestle around a bit? Or did I make that up?
Wrestled with an Angel, and I believe it was Issac (Israel) who wrestled with the angel for a night and a day.

God and Moses wrestled, if I recall correctly.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-08-18 12:11am

All Talk of God and the whole shebang about whether or not can he be statsically gauged via D&D...here

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2005-08-18 02:45am

AdmiralKanos wrote:God and Moses wrestled, if I recall correctly.

Jacob wrestled with a man often supposed to be "God" and was renamed Israel, meaning 'struggles with God.' The text is actually totally unclear.

Genesis 32:22 wrote:22 That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two maidservants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak."
But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."

27 The man asked him, "What is your name?"
"Jacob," he answered.

28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, [e] because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."

29 Jacob said, "Please tell me your name."
But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there.

30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, [f] saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

I read that passge as being entirely figurative, as a literal interpretation ("ZOMG the man was God himself!") is fucking goofy. Jacob, who was supposedly ninety at this time, outwrestled God and forced Him to cheat? Even though the bible is mostly fantasy, that doesn't even make sense within the context of the book, and it's one of the obvious cases of biblical literalism contradicting itself.

The "struggle with God" is obviously poetic, taking note of Jacob's difficult life leading up to that point. It reflects an intense period of introspection for Jacob. He was on his way to meet his brother Esau, whom he hadn't seen for decades since trying to cheat him out of his birthright, and was afraid that Esau would just kill him when he showed his face. So he struggled with God within himself, and gave himself a new name.

Moses never wrestled with God. God just fucked with Moses all the time; Job is the only character I can think of off the top of my head whose position is more pitiable. A few examples of God testing Moses... waking Moses up in the middle of the night and ordering him to circumcize his son for no readily explainable reason, briefly striking Moses with leprosy to prove a point, forcing Moses to wander in the desert for forty years for something somebody else did, ordering Moses to massacre the entire Hebrew nation (though he was talked out of it), and (my favorite) banning Moses from ever entering the promised land and in fact forcing him to die alone just within sight of it. That is cold.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-08-18 03:06am

Pablo Sanchez wrote:I read that passge as being entirely figurative, as a literal interpretation ("ZOMG the man was God himself!") is fucking goofy. Jacob, who was supposedly ninety at this time, outwrestled God and forced Him to cheat? Even though the bible is mostly fantasy, that doesn't even make sense within the context of the book, and it's one of the obvious cases of biblical literalism contradicting itself.

Of course it's fucking goofy. But the literalists can't have their cake and eat it too.

The "struggle with God" is obviously poetic, taking note of Jacob's difficult life leading up to that point. It reflects an intense period of introspection for Jacob. He was on his way to meet his brother Esau, whom he hadn't seen for decades since trying to cheat him out of his birthright, and was afraid that Esau would just kill him when he showed his face. So he struggled with God within himself, and gave himself a new name.

Some would say the entire Pentateuch is poetic.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-08-18 11:11am

weemadando wrote:Hell with Kinsey being such a fundie, imagine the results if some Go'uald "angels" started visiting him and giving him suggestions.

Actually, since Kinsey is now host to a snakehead, he could very well be sending Goa'uld "angels".

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-08-18 06:28pm

DAMN YOU FUCKER!

SPOILERS!

SPOILERS! FUCKFACE! SPOILERS!

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-08-18 06:34pm

err, that happened a long ways back andro.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2005-08-18 06:45pm

AdmiralKanos wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Zero132132 wrote:Isn't there a part where God and Abraham fight, wrestle around a bit? Or did I make that up?
Wrestled with an Angel, and I believe it was Issac (Israel) who wrestled with the angel for a night and a day.
God and Moses wrestled, if I recall correctly.

When Moses and God wrestled, it is better to say they "struggled" or "argued" about the fate of Israel. I don't think it was a physical altercation as I read the text, so chalk that one up to translation.

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-08-18 07:17pm

Matt Huang wrote:err, that happened a long ways back andro.

No doubt it was that one fucking episode of season 8 I missed. Sorry, I thought it might have been a season 9 spoiler.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-08-19 12:42am

Interesting thought;

Kinsey's fundiness is so strong it rubs off on the snake and he converts to worshipping the ORI.

That's a nice WTF

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-08-19 03:27am

Lord Jehovah is a minor underlord of the System Lord Atum, who hasn't been trusted with a starship since that 'Sodom and Gommoragh' incident. Or at least, that's how I wrote it one time.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-08-19 11:02am

weemadando wrote:
Matt Huang wrote:err, that happened a long ways back andro.
No doubt it was that one fucking episode of season 8 I missed. Sorry, I thought it might have been a season 9 spoiler.

Episode 8x14, Full Alert.