Force Sub Winter 1941, Russian Tanks vs Mechs (part II)

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 12:20am

Continue.....

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-27 12:26am

SylasGaunt, I know that much. What I want to know is how do we know it was ten kilometers distant, and where there any cuts during the time of flight or was it all one shot from firing to impact.

Now for members of the anti mecha alliance, what kind of tank or anti tank aircraft do you want in my upcoming fan fic?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 12:27am

In fact, this does reinforce the idea that HE is useless against Gundams. In an episode, we see the Guntank firing at MSs to no real effect, and we see that it fires HE due to the huge explosions on when its shot hits bare rock.

Whereas the 100mm machine gun of the Gundams are far more effective against MSs.

Many many errors here. the calibre of the guntank's
120mm "Explosive Cannon" is much too long to be
a proper HE weapon.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 12:32am

Guntank II

60mm Machine Gun,
120mm Explosive Cannon x2,
4-Rocket Launcher,
3-Missile Launcher

What a fucked up POS.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-27 12:34am

MKSheppard wrote:

Guntank II

60mm Machine Gun,
120mm Explosive Cannon x2,
4-Rocket Launcher,
3-Missile Launcher

What a fucked up POS.

Need I make jokes about you direct linking to geocities? But that thing is fucked up as all hell.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 12:35am

Sea Skimmer wrote: Need I make jokes about you direct linking to geocities? But that thing is fucked up as all hell.

Gargh:

The ORIGINAL Magella Attack tank.....look how fucking tiny the turret
ring is.....

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 12:39am

Their idea of a APC:

Their idea of a Fighter:

MY EYES! THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING!

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 12:46am

314 tons

Overall length: 41.0 meters
Overall width: 24.0 meters
Height at guns' muzzles: 22.46 meters

Main engine output: 11500 bhp

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-27 12:54am

MKSheppard wrote:

314 tons

Overall length: 41.0 meters
Overall width: 24.0 meters
Height at guns' muzzles: 22.46 meters

Main engine output: 11500 bhp

You don't even need weapons to kill that thing, you've just got to trick into firing its guns and that will do the job for you.

Dendrobius · Post by **Dendrobius** » 2002-11-27 01:40am

Aren't you guys getting a bit off topic pulling MACROSS stuff into here?!

SylasGaunt, thanks for the heads up, I double checked that 5kg information and found it after a bit of Googling.

I'm trying to prove that the Magella's main cannon is at least as deadly as a T90, and therefore since Gundams can take that to the chest without blinking, they have more than a fighting chance against the T90s.

Comparison so far:

T90
Range= 2.5km
Muzzle velocity:
Firing HE-FRAG = .85km/s
Firing APFSDS = 1.8km/s (3.6kg core)
Firing HEAT = .904km/s
(courtesy http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/index.html)

Magella
Range = 10km
Muzzle velocity
Firing KE penetrator = anywhere from 3.3 to 5 km/s (unknown weight for core)

MKSheppard, the Magella in question which fired the shot was not the original one but the modified one as it appeared in 08th MST
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/msgund ... attack.htm
Go here, and you can see that the collar ring was expanded significantly. Perhaps even because after the initial Earth invasion they realised they needed more there?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 01:42am

Dendrobius wrote:Aren't you guys getting a bit off topic pulling MACROSS stuff into here?!

T90
Range= 2.5km

Shut the fuck up FUCKNUT. The T-90 can hit targets much farther than
that.....stop misrepresenting the debate by distorting facts.

Dendrobius · Post by **Dendrobius** » 2002-11-27 01:44am

Sea Skimmer, we know that it was ten kilometres distant because the unit commander for that Team specifically told them to stop there and he then proceeded onwards to the objective with his hovercraft command vehicle. His pilots in fact objected and asked to close the range!

As for cuts during time of flight, no. The scene was 'shot' from the Gundam's point of view, and you see everything from the Zaku II's Magella cannon muzzle flash to the landing. No cuts. And repeated shots.

Not only does the Magella cannon outrange the T90's badly, it also fires much quicker. Almost 2 shots in 3 seconds, or 20 rounds per minute as opposed to the T90's 8 rounds per minute, or 1 shot in 7.5 seconds.

Dendrobius · Post by **Dendrobius** » 2002-11-27 01:48am

MKSheppard:

Not according to this
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t-90.htm
It can't.

Your target ID range for the commander's sight is .8km. Your night vision gear goes 2.5km.

And according to this
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t80tank.htm

The 125-mm smoothbore gun 2A46M-1, which is the immediate predecessor to the T90's 2A46M-2, has max aimed range of 2km.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 01:48am

Dendrobius wrote: Not only does the Magella cannon outrange the T90's badly

I've said it before.....

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STOP MISREPRESENTING THE FACTS!

Specifications (2A46M-2 with T-90 FCS and autoloader):

Effective range
direct fire vs. 2m high target
HEAT 1010 m
APFSDS 2120 m
with FCS
HEAT/APFSDS 4000 m
HEF 5000 m
HEF indirect 10000 m

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 01:49am

Dendrobius wrote:MKSheppard:

Not according to this
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t-90.htm
It can't.

Again.....

SHUT THE LIVING FUCK UP! IS THAT SO HARD TO GET THROUGH YOUR
ASYMPTOMOTICALLY SLOPING FOREHEAD? FAS.ORG IS NOT A FUCKING
REPUTABLE SOURCE! ALL THEY ARE GOOD FOR IS PRETTY PICTURES!

Dendrobius · Post by **Dendrobius** » 2002-11-27 01:50am

Did I misrepresent any facts?

The Magella cannon was firing in AIMED, and also DIRECT FIRE MODE.

Check your own table. Nothing goes beyond 5km if it's direct fire for the T90.

Thanks for the table, you just correlated what fas.org said about its capabilities.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 01:52am

Dendrobius wrote:Did I misrepresent any facts?

The Magella cannon was firing in AIMED, and also DIRECT FIRE MODE.

Check your own table. Nothing goes beyond 5km if it's direct fire for the T90.

Thanks for the table, you just correlated what fas.org said about its capabilities.

YOU FUCKHEAD! DID YOU NOT NOTE THE LINE THAT SAID:

with FCS
HEAT/APFSDS 4000 m

THAT IS WITH THE FUCKING FIRE CONTROL SYSTEM ENAGED, YOU FUCKING
RETARDED MORON! CAN'T YOU EVEN FUCKING READ YOU FUCKING FUCKTARD?!?!?

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2002-11-27 01:52am

I've seen a couple websites that said that Magella 175mm projectiles used rocket assist. Can you tell me how accurate this information is?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-27 01:54am

Dendrobius wrote:MKSheppard:

Not according to this
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t-90.htm
It can't.

Your target ID range for the commander's sight is .8km. Your night vision gear goes 2.5km.

And according to this
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t80tank.htm

The 125-mm smoothbore gun 2A46M-1, which is the immediate predecessor to the T90's 2A46M-2, has max aimed range of 2km.

Target ID range is for being able to ID the make of a 2 meter high tank. Not an issue against somthing nine times taller that you know is hostile reguardless. 2500 meters is the limitation of the thermal system only, once again against tank sized targets. A huge mecha has a much larger thermal signature, espically since it would be less likely to have ground clutter behind it.

The AT-11 has repeadly demonstrated the ability to hit at 4000-5000 for the latest marks, once again against tanks, not small apartment buildings. it is what the T-90 uses for long range, not shells though in the UAE tank trials they did reach out over three klicks and connect.

Dendrobius · Post by **Dendrobius** » 2002-11-27 01:55am

http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/index.html

Independent sight out of fas.org, this guy seems to specialise in detailing Russian armoured vehicles, his stats are the same (in fact I suspect copied straight off fas.org).

Sorry. All I can say here is eat it. You've lost this one. The Magella cannon demonstrated the ability to do aimed fire at double the range of the T90's cannon.

Furthermore, it is stated that the Magella only carries KE penetrator rounds. Presume it's APDSDS, and suddenly the Magella shoots literally double and then some further than your precious T90.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 01:56am

Dendrobius wrote: Sorry. All I can say here is eat it. You've lost this one. The Magella cannon demonstrated the ability to do aimed fire at double the range of the T90's cannon.

And all you have to show is a dangerously unreliable site that once
showed pictures of a new Chinese fighter by doctoring pictures of the
EuroFighter 2000....

Dendrobius · Post by **Dendrobius** » 2002-11-27 01:58am

Guys:

4000-5000 metres = 4 - 5 km

Magella SHOT 10 km, 10000 km.

MORE than double the range.

As for rocket assist, I honestly don't know, but what good would it be? 3.3 to 5 km/s demonstrated speed, why a rocket? Maybe that even solves the recoil problem...that Magella is a BIG ASS RECOILESS RIFLE? Hahaha.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-27 01:59am

Dendrobius wrote: Sorry. All I can say here is eat it. You've lost this one. The Magella cannon demonstrated the ability to do aimed fire at double the range of the T90's cannon.

And the T-90 can do aimed fire out to 10km, asshole.

Direct fire you retarded fool, is anything within line of sight.....
at the ranges you speak of, even with hypervelocity rounds, you
will need a very good fire control system, and the gun is going
to be supereleveated like crazy.

Dendrobius · Post by **Dendrobius** » 2002-11-27 02:01am

Whoops, I meant 10000m, not 10000km.

That's your stats. You said it goes to 4000 metres. And at 1.8km/s, that's what, a bit over two seconds. In the same time the Magella shoots double the distance.

I don't need to rely on fas.org or anything, you two (Sea Skimmer + MKSheppard) just give it to me on a silver platter. Thanks!

Dendrobius · Post by **Dendrobius** » 2002-11-27 02:03am

MKSheppard, were you even looking at the stats?

Ok, vertical displacement and horizontal displacement is independent of each other. Only time affects vertical displacement.

We know that the initial speed of the projectiles are different by literally a half.

Firing at the same angle, the faster projectile will travel further!

EVIDENCE FOR 10km AIMED FIRE, PLEASE?

Sorry, nothing you say is going to make a difference here. It was shown on screen. Therefore it's canon. Therefore we take it as truth.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Force Sub Winter 1941, Russian Tanks vs Mechs (part II)

Force Sub Winter 1941, Russian Tanks vs Mechs (part II)

Re: Force Sub Winter 1941, Russian Tanks vs Mechs (part II)

God, they're fucked up....

Re: God, they're fucked up....

Re: God, they're fucked up....

MACROSS is even more fucked up..

Re: MACROSS is even more fucked up..